Reports from South Africa that omicron is disproportionately effecting under 5s

[Notsomerryandbright]

I can’t see another thread title discussing this but I’ve just read that Health Officials in South Africa have reported they’ve had a disproportionate number of under 5s admitted into hospital with covid over the last 2 weeks, 29% classified as having severe infection.

I’m not trying to cause panic etc but this really worries me. Just wanted to start a thread in hope someone more knowledgeable will come along and make it seem less scary than the figures suggest.

www.news.com.au/world/africa/south-african-government-medical-adviser-reveals-how-omicron-is-hitting-under5s/news-story/995e5cb71b3e8d7d4ae159f92549b8d0

We do not behave to wait until its been proved. By then it could be too late for a lot of kids!!

When you panic people repeatedly without any decent evidence, what do you think will happen?

“But there really IS a wolf this time! I know I said there was a wolf last time and the time before and the time before that, and there wasn’t, but this time we should all herd up the sheep and get them indoors!”

“Yeah yeah Peter. Jog on.”

If omicron is going to be a massive public health threat to children, putting a few fans in schools won’t help. You either put in big sweeping measures that come at massive cost or you faff around with fairly minor things to be seen to be doing something in a way that doesn’t actually make much difference.

There are going to be new variants of covid for years, and year, and years. There are going to be new variants long past the point where it doesn’t make the news any more. It isn’t going to go away. And we can’t put big sweeping measures in place ‘just in case’ every single time.

We will know more in a few weeks. Then we can make proportionate decisions based on evidence.

They need to act now

Shut schools early before Xmas holidays and allow vaccination for under 5s push it through ASAP and get it done

By your methods why are we bothering to boost adults then? Why not just wait and see if it's needed?

Because we have very good evidence that it massively increases immune response. We don’t know yet exactly what effect it will have against infection rates with omicron but we have decent enough evidence it’s likely to do something, and raise protection against severe disease.

We aren’t doing it because somebody read on MSN that a journalist said somebody else had said it was a good idea.

Yes I am amazed that few seem to care about this. You cant dismiss this as "just the old and vulnerable"
And if under-fives are hospitalised in Britain as is happening in South Africa, Johnson's advice to nurseries to go ahead with in-person nativity plays is going to look very foolish.

I think we need to know more info but we can't compare the situation in both countries. For starters I've read that in SA people are more likely to take their kids to hospital if slightly poorly (you really wouldn't here, though you might contact a gp) and because of the unknown qualities of omicron doctors are currently more likely to admit them. Doesn't mean they are more likely to be seriously ill.

Until we know what is happening to children in the UK/Europe I think speculating is probably quite fruitless at this point. Hopefully it will continue to be only a mild disease in children as with other variants.

The broader issue we have at the moment is we're not going to understand enough about it until it's almost certainly too late to stop it overtaking delta.

There's extreme poverty and higher levels of hiv in South Africa in children. Without a proper study it's impossible to say if there's a causative effect

The point is that SA medics are comparing the impact of this variant against the impact of other variants. They are saying this variant has led to more hospitalisations of under fives.
Maybe in the UK this will translate into lots of under-fives being very poorly and less being hospitalised. But the point is it has more impact on under fives. Previous variants a lot of under-fives literally had a sniffle.

But the point is it has more impact on under fives

No, we don’t know that. We will know that when we have more evidence about omicron. We don’t know that right now.

@asdissues

They need to act now

Shut schools early before Xmas holidays and allow vaccination for under 5s push it through ASAP and get it done

The vaccine hasn't been fully tested for under 5s anywhere so that's not going to happen.

I think it is too early to shut schools.

@Frazzled2207

I think we need to know more info but we can't compare the situation in both countries. For starters I've read that in SA people are more likely to take their kids to hospital if slightly poorly (you really wouldn't here, though you might contact a gp) and because of the unknown qualities of omicron doctors are currently more likely to admit them. Doesn't mean they are more likely to be seriously ill.

Until we know what is happening to children in the UK/Europe I think speculating is probably quite fruitless at this point. Hopefully it will continue to be only a mild disease in children as with other variants.

The broader issue we have at the moment is we're not going to understand enough about it until it's almost certainly too late to stop it overtaking delta.

Children are more likely to be hospitalised in SA for any reason, poor communities will club together to take out loans etc to get treatment for kids. That doesn’t happen with adults where severe illness tends to be more likely to lead to hospitalisation. It’s possible SA officials are deliberately overstating Omicron hospitals because of the unknowns so they can get more support to research and produce their own vaccinations (like India did).

hospitalisation

I find the lack of concern for UK children being infected terrible.

I think at this stage it’s very difficult to know and I say that as a parent of two young children and someone who is very cautious about covid. Headlines like this feel really scary but I remember Delta being reported in a similar way re the impact on children in other countries, however fortunately this wasn’t replicated in the U.K. due to differences in the health care system and children’s over all health and level of nutrition. It’s still a worry but as with everything related to omicron we need to wait a little longer for more conclusive data whilst also being cautious. Just because this has been noted as an issue in South Africa it doesn’t mean it’ll definitely be an issue in the U.K.

@Obsidiansphere

I find the lack of concern for UK children being infected terrible.

A large amount of people don't seem to have been particularly bothered about anyone else since March 2020, so I don't find it surprising, sadly.

These children are not just 'taken to hospital because they are slightly poorly', they are unwell enough to be admitted to hospital.

Also, it is a bit of a stretch to accuse a country of inventing hospital trends and case numbers, simply because this situation provokes uncomfortable thoughts for you.

I did read somewhere that the under 5s with covid in S African hospitals were generally admitted for other things and then found to have covid in hospital so hopefully it isn't as bad as it seems. I will try to find the link.

I thought they were being admitted for respiratory infections?

@Itisasecret

The reason people are so anti anything child related it is because it paints a really uncomfortable truth. We are the only country who haven't in anyway shape or form protected our children. For the most part that has been supported by cognitive dissonance of parents.

We are the only country that did completely away with any mitigation in schools (the fact we had minimal mitigation to start, is still relevant). Then we have happily let the virus rip through children, the unvaccinated primary children are the main drivers. We have no idea long term, what damage that may or may not have caused. We have no idea how many children may have lives cut short due to long covid. Schools can't ever fucking close again is too simplistic. Rather than challenge the Government to keep schools open safely (for all). Parents (for the most part) have been happy to follow the party line - kids are safe in schools.

The lack of concern surrounding potential long term implications for the next generation is staggering. Parents positively joyful their children are getting ill, as opposed to actually wishing that their children could access education safely. As it stands, many children are not getting the education the deserve because they are sick or their teachers are and they are with a TA/long term supply.

The outrage isn't there because it is uncomfortable for people to face. I genuinely think this period in history will be judged harshly. For the way we used our own children as a medical experiment to protect ourselves and preserve our quality of life.

I agree with this.

Schools are as normal... except for Covid19 ripping through most of them right now.
Staff and children are currently ill and absent from school in huge numbers.... but this is not something we should be mentioning.
Just keep calm and carry on!

Now, with this new variant, there is some worrying news coming about young children and pregnant women. Will anything be done to protect these groups or is it still a case of stick our heads in the sand?

[quote julieca]@Prescottdanni123 the SAGE minutes say that vaccination rates and natural immunity from previous infection, is good in the affected area. Its not the whole of SA after all.[/quote]
Actually they are saying that previous immunity from delta or previous variants does not give you good protection. In fact, it increases the liklihood of ypu catching omicron. Watch Dr Campbells latest direction of very up to date research on you tube. Incredibly depressing.