Omicron New Variant Thread 2 *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Thewiseoneincognito]

Continuation of the last thread

@Turquoisesol I am very much pro vaccine as well and I happily had my two and am due to have the third soon.

I do agree that ensuring those who are vulnerable have had their third dose would make sense and I am assuming this has already happened as I know some ECV people have already been vaccinated for the third time.

It seems herd immunity is happening and is accepted and yes we will have asymptomatic people passing the virus on within the community. The vaccines seem to be used to stop people from having fatal/terrible symptoms (which I am sure no one wants) and also to ensure the hospitals are not overwhelmed again.

I'd love to see more research going into exactly what makes the symptoms and outcomes vary from person to person.

So many people I know have had symptoms which vary from being housebound a year later to being wiped for a couple of months and people who were completely asymptomatic. If there was a way to work out which of us were more vulnerable and exactly why the virus attacks some of us more violently and with such heartbreaking outcomes in some cases, I wonder if we might be able to tailor treatments with better success?

@SleevedOff

Yes - me too!!

Is it genetics? Blood types? Environmental influence? Combination of it all?

The UK Health Security Agency are reporting that the new variant will exceed one million cases per day by Christmas if current infection rates continue. That’s so frightening.

I was wondering if some of the variation might be down to being infected by the virus mutating as it spreads through a population .

So different people infected by slightly different strains ?

Would that be possible - or does the virus mutate in an infected person and then contacts of that person infected by the new strain .So there would be clusters ?

But presumably there are mutations that die out but affect people along the way.

Is there sequencing ( right word ? ) for long covid sufferers and those with severe symptoms ?

@MistressoftheDarkSide

One thing I really don't get is why all the vaccines are so different if they're all supposed to be doing the same thing? And what's in that particular booster that is so amazing compared to the vaccines? Why wasn't there one standard optimised vaccine? Is it because capitalism or just scientific stuff? Why in a worldwide pandemic wasn't there total collaboration for the greater good? And if the booster is that amazing, why us it a booster not a new vaccine altogether? How come it's immediately brilliant for a variant that is apparently about a month old?

Genuinely interested because I've been trying to keep up, but failing miserably....

One thing I really don't get is why all the vaccines are so different if they're all supposed to be doing the same thing? There's more than one way to kill zombies. Its useful that there are multiple ways to kill zombies cos you might have a hammer to hand even if you couldn't get hold of a saw.

And what's in that particular booster that is so amazing compared to the vaccines?
Boosters are the same as doses 1 and 2. The UK has chosen Pfizer and Moderna because they were performing better than AZ in effectiveness and waning plus AZ followed by Pfizer/Moderna was giving better tcell protection than other mixes.

Why wasn't there one standard optimised vaccine?
Noone knew what was definitely going to work, so there was investment in multiple vaccine programmes in the hope that at least 1 would work. Fortunately several have which gives us a variety of options to chose between. There is a good comparison with the Manhatten project where money was chucked at multiple projects to try and ensure success would happen. Its a bit like spread betting but for medicine. If you back all the horses you are definitely going to win. Thats why there isn't a standardised one. It was just get anything you can as quickly as you can.

Is it because capitalism or just scientific stuff?
See above. No not capitalism directly as such for once.

Why in a worldwide pandemic wasn't there total collaboration for the greater good?
Nationalism and a general desparate panic to 'protect your own' first kicked in. Cooperation largely went out the window when it became apparent that this was slowing procurement of vaccines down. It was 'every man for himself'. There wasn't any international leadership from places who had the power to. Covax hasn't captured the public imagination and domestic political pressure has dominated what individual governments have done. Don't forget world leaders didn't meet each other in person for over a year until Cornwall.

And if the booster is that amazing, why is it a booster not a new vaccine altogether?
The name booster is misleading. It should just be called a third normal primary dose and have done with it. Its confusing people.

New vaccines for specific variants haven't been rolled out because the existing ones were holding up well enough and there wasn't a need to. Omicron, may change that.

How come it's immediately brilliant for a variant that is apparently about a month old?
Its not. Its just that 3 doses seems to produce better antibody and tcell production. The higher levels help to neutralise omicron even those its shaped differently.

Does that help?

@RedToothBrush

Yes, a little 😊 thank you for taking the time to do that x

Great answers, RTB!

@RedToothBrush thank you

RTB I thought a booster was half the dose of that given in vaccination jabs 1 and 2 ?

And that the third injection was given instead of a booster to people whose immune system was severely compromised eg those on chemo .

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine-3rd-dose/

@peridito

RTB I thought a booster was half the dose of that given in vaccination jabs 1 and 2 ?

And that the third injection was given instead of a booster to people whose immune system was severely compromised eg those on chemo .

Yes. You are right. I've over simplified to help with understanding.

Its an example of where language matters.

The problem is the name 'booster' suggests its more of an optimal extra. The wording/naming isn't good for public understanding of why they should get a booster and why everyone should have it.

It would have been better to give the name booster to immuno suppressed and called the booster 'the third dose' to normalise what everyone should get. (Hope that makes sense)

What we call things matters in terms of how we communicate a message to the wider public.

I don't think the PR on boosters has been good at all, and that really affected early take up and that in turn is now having an impact at a point where we need as many people done as quickly as possible.

This has worried me a bit. What challenging information do you think they were presented with at the Cobra meeting? Bit of a shift in tone. So bloody fed up with all the uncertainty, nerves are completely shot.

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-government-shown-very-challenging-new-information-on-omicron-and-will-keep-restrictions-under-review-says-michael-gove-12492075

Isn't Gove known to be more in favour of stricter measure? More prone to highlight severity of Covid ?

So presenting things through a different lens ..?

All sounding pretty grim tonight and a definite change in tone. Gove is more cautious in terms of restrictions though so somebody else might have presented it differently, although he did give a good interview. Fergus Walsh on BBC news was also much more serious at 6pm. Next week is going to be very interesting.

This also looking bleak... www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/10/stringent-uk-covid-measures-needed-within-a-week-leak-reveals?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

I wonder if we're going to make it to Christmas without more restrictions at this rate? Hideous.

The vague way he worded it has really made me cross. People are anxious enough without the cryptic statements. Either announce it at a press conference in a professional way or just don't bloody say anything.

30% of new cases in London are now omicron

Next week will be crucial.
It does feel bleak, but who do you believe ?
If it's really mild and the hospitals are coping then maybe it might not be as bad ?
Nobody knows at the moment.

@MumbleCrumbs

The vague way he worded it has really made me cross. People are anxious enough without the cryptic statements. Either announce it at a press conference in a professional way or just don't bloody say anything.

Agree annoying article just to ramp up emotive response

I've never been given so much whiplash by the media before. One side is basically saying it's so mild it could even be a good thing if it spreads, the other side saying we're basically heading for a lockdown. How can there not be some sort of consensus by now?

Micheal Gove talking to experts. Who'd thought it ?..
still, at least he was more coherent today than Boris Johnson.

I know it’s so uncertain and the media need stuff to go with to fill the gaps

Tiring though

@peridito

RTB I thought a booster was half the dose of that given in vaccination jabs 1 and 2 ?

And that the third injection was given instead of a booster to people whose immune system was severely compromised eg those on chemo .

The Moderna booster is half a dose. Pfizer is the same.

Current terms are "booster" for regular people getting a 3rd injection after their first 2 primary doses (what we used to call "fully vaccinated" - I'm not sure if 2 doses is still termed that).

"Additional dose" is the 3rd primary injection given to immunosuppressed people.

So other than the Moderna booster containing a half dose it's a question of terminology and status of the person the injection is being administred to.

I think Michael Gove is referring to:

1. Lack of protection from two AZ with Omicron - the positive though for this is that pretty much everyone who had AZ should have a booster with pushes it up

2. Already 30% in London

3. I think other one is Scotland - cases have doubled there since the 5th. I dont think it was a coincidence that it came from a COBRA meeting of all 4 nations

Given that London has 30% Omicron and hasnt quite doubled yet since the 5th (almost) yet Scotland has - what kind of level is Scotland experiencing