Omicron New Variant Thread 2 *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Thewiseoneincognito]

Continuation of the last thread

Fauci is reporting that early indications are that Omicron is milder, US talking about lifting travel restrictions.

As for milder but more infectious causing more deaths than more severe but less infect, it will also get it over with far quicker.

It depends how much milder and how much more infectious. If vaccines keep the vast majority out of hospital, this is a good thing.

It is also yet another argument for maximising the vaccine coverage.

@Kokeshi123

Any of the effective covid strategies employed worldwide should be under consideration.

"I think that we should manage the COVID that is spreading worldwide in an effective and strategic way, by employing any of the effective strategies that are effective worldwide in managerial terms."

Be specific, please. What strategies?
As I've said before, COVID management strategies are both effective and easy, but the ones that are effective are not at all easy to do, and the ones that are easy to do don't appear to be very effective.

Exactly

List specific measures and it’ll be more obvious if they’d work or not as we can see from Germany / Ireland etc.

@TheReluctantPhoenix

Fauci is reporting that early indications are that Omicron is milder, US talking about lifting travel restrictions.

As for milder but more infectious causing more deaths than more severe but less infect, it will also get it over with far quicker.

It depends how much milder and how much more infectious. If vaccines keep the vast majority out of hospital, this is a good thing.

It is also yet another argument for maximising the vaccine coverage.

If US lift travel restrictions that’ll be a big signal.

But travel restrictions are pretty fucking pointless with omicron anyway.

We KNOW it was everywhere BEFORE it was even identified.

Definitely here already it’s true.

We tend to have a domino effect with setting or lifting so if they do will be interesting what happens here

NPIs that worked with alpha and Delta won't necessarily work with Omicron. Partly because it's more transmissible. And partly because it's less clear what the purpose would be -so compliance would be lower. People complied with a lot of restrictions previously because they were scared of catching covid. They're not so scared now.

Can't we disagree with posters and question them politely? I really dislike people being sarcastic towards @PrincessNutNuts.

It's easy to back someone into a corner and then run around gleefully when that person doesn't come up with what you feel is needed to support their claim .Posters are allowed to give generalised answers .They're even allowed to assert something and then not give much detail
to support it .It might not suit peoples' view of what they consider a debate ,but there are ways of responding that can still be polite .And not amount to a pile on of sarcasm and veiled rudeness .

@peridito

Can't we disagree with posters and question them politely? I really dislike people being sarcastic towards *@PrincessNutNuts*.

It's easy to back someone into a corner and then run around gleefully when that person doesn't come up with what you feel is needed to support their claim .Posters are allowed to give generalised answers .They're even allowed to assert something and then not give much detail
to support it .It might not suit peoples' view of what they consider a debate ,but there are ways of responding that can still be polite .And not amount to a pile on of sarcasm and veiled rudeness .

Straight questions like how would you solve it

What would you do

Are as direct as they come - why not just answer and be specific?

Maybe they do know the solution, how can we know what they mean if it’s just other stuff coming back

I agree @MarshaBradyo, your queries very straightforward .Other posters less so .

@peridito maybe people are fed up of Princess posting for 18 months on how she could solve this with 'effective and easy' measures but not really detailing what those are?

Like a pp said, if measures are effective there will be impact to the economy and if they are easy, they don't really do much.

I'm sure everyone would genuinely love to hear suggestions that were both - it would solve all our problems surely?

@peridito

I think the issue is that some posters have posted regularly about how wrong everyone is getting it in the U.K. and how we should be doing things differently.

This is often followed up with a suggestion that, for example, accepting that zero covid in the U.K. was probably always unachievable, is "defeatist" and that if only everyone was more "can do" like the OP it could have been done. There is also a general undercurrent that those posting don't care about people dying and should be doing more to prevent deaths.

Being critical about what is being done and suggesting people are not bothered about people dying, whilst being superior and vague about what you think ought to be done, gets a bit trying after a while.

Long thread here by James Ward definitely worth reading, lots of unknowns but we may see another wave like in January last year (though unlikely worse than that):

twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1467628403553615885

[quote Sunshinegirl82]@peridito

I think the issue is that some posters have posted regularly about how wrong everyone is getting it in the U.K. and how we should be doing things differently.

This is often followed up with a suggestion that, for example, accepting that zero covid in the U.K. was probably always unachievable, is "defeatist" and that if only everyone was more "can do" like the OP it could have been done. There is also a general undercurrent that those posting don't care about people dying and should be doing more to prevent deaths.

Being critical about what is being done and suggesting people are not bothered about people dying, whilst being superior and vague about what you think ought to be done, gets a bit trying after a while.[/quote]
Yes. There comes a point when it's perfectly reasonable to suggest someone might shit or get off the pot.

Common, @VikingOnTheFridge, maybe constipation is a covid symptom .

My easy measures would be:

• Masks should have been mandatory in shops and large gatherings throughout
• More should have been done to combat vaccine hesitancy. Maybe a show with all the stars of gogglebox getting their vaccines (as part of a regular episode so people would watch)
• Better financial support for people self isolating. My neighbour told me when her daughter got covid there were a lot of parents in her school who were very angry with her for getting tested - they would have preferred she spread it around the school as people were having to self isolate and lose wages

Thought it was supposed to be the opposite!

Agree on financial support. While it would also be abused, it's a fact that there are people who simply cannot afford to isolate. It's not realistic or reasonable to expect them to test if that may mean they can't pay their bills.

However “tired” some may get of the perceived faults of other regular posters, there’s no need for sarcasm or personal attacks, surely?

PNNs has cited NPIs. Does everyone on here know what she means by that - non pharmaceutical interventions, eg masks, distancing, sanitising, and strict lockdown being the ultimate one.

eg masks, distancing, sanitising, and strict lockdown being the ultimate one.

You would need to be specific re which ones

As there are a few - as listed

Lockdown is obviously very different to mask mandate.

It’s also easy to see Germany has more NPIs than we do and still introducing more measures as they didn’t work to control delta.

So sure say you have the solution but if NPIs are so broad, say which you mean.

@JanglyBeads yes strict lockdown is so easy and non disruptive. Should 100% be a tool we consider long term

Given that there's no rule against sarcasm on MN, it will be for every individual poster to decide whether there's a need for it.

[quote weddingguesttbc]@JanglyBeads yes strict lockdown is so easy and non disruptive. Should 100% be a tool we consider long term [/quote]
Don’t know where you got the idea I think it’s easy and non disruptive from?

@peridito

Can't we disagree with posters and question them politely? I really dislike people being sarcastic towards *@PrincessNutNuts*.

It's easy to back someone into a corner and then run around gleefully when that person doesn't come up with what you feel is needed to support their claim .Posters are allowed to give generalised answers .They're even allowed to assert something and then not give much detail
to support it .It might not suit peoples' view of what they consider a debate ,but there are ways of responding that can still be polite .And not amount to a pile on of sarcasm and veiled rudeness .

I agree. It really wasn't called for to mock her and suggest that she is pretending to have heard of recombination. For a start, the whole pangolin/bat coronavirus recombination theory has been around since the start of the pandemic so I doubt that passed PrincessNutNuts by given the amount of time she spends on the Coronavirus boards...

It does feel like some of the questions to her today are an attempt to start an argument for the sake of an argument.

@MarshaBradyo

eg masks, distancing, sanitising, and strict lockdown being the ultimate one.

You would need to be specific re which ones

As there are a few - as listed

Lockdown is obviously very different to mask mandate.

It’s also easy to see Germany has more NPIs than we do and still introducing more measures as they didn’t work to control delta.

So sure say you have the solution but if NPIs are so broad, say which you mean.

Yes, and also why you believe those specific interventions will work in the U.K., particularly if they have not/are not working elsewhere.

For example, numerous posts suggesting we should never have stopped widespread mask usage. I can completely see the argument for that but widespread mask usage continued to be mandated in Scotland and Wales and made very little difference to case numbers.

Also an acceptance that ALL NPI's (even the "low level" ones) come with an associated cost and so there will be a cost/benefit consideration.

None of this is simple, straightforward or cost free. It's complicated and nuanced. There will be a wide range of tolerance for restrictions and their associated impacts and, realistically, whatever approach is taken some people will disagree with it.

If you want to try and convince people that your own preferred approach is one they should support/get behind/campaign for then you need to be convincing and that needs some detail in my view. Not just criticism and vagueness.

It does feel like some of the questions to her today are an attempt to start an argument for the sake of an argument.

Not at all.

If someone states confidently they can solve this I’m interested to hear how.

Specifics though are needed otherwise it’s not clear

If someone states confidently they can solve this I’m interested to hear how.

I think you have probably been on enough threads with PrincessNutNuts, @MarshaBradyo, to already know exactly how she would "solve" the pandemic

[quote manolantern]Long thread here by James Ward definitely worth reading, lots of unknowns but we may see another wave like in January last year (though unlikely worse than that):

twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1467628403553615885[/quote]
NHS worker here. I know this is meant to be good news, but my gut response is a sick and panicked, "I can't do that again. I can't. I can't."

And it's going to be worse, even if the covid wave is just the same. Because last year there was basically zero flu due to lockdown. And last year staff weren't quite so broken with it as they are now.

Sorry if that's depressing - I got barely no sleep last night with a combination of hot flushes (yay menopause!) and flashbacks to the panicked anxiety and overwork of spring 2020.

We're all so very very tired.