Can someone explain the logic to me please

[ChristmasScrooge]

How does this make sense?

We have to mask up on public transport and shops... but you can go into a nightclub where people are hugging/mingling more and you don't have to wear one?

WHERE IS THE LOGIC?

Anyone else fed up of all coronavirus crap? Let us live, the death toll isn't correct. Whose to say those people didn't test positive but yet died of cancer? Or got hit by a bus or whatever?

And how does having a vaccine protect others? When you can still catch covid and pass it on?

None of it makes any sense.

It's bullshit theatre. Doing something to look as if you're doing something.

Older people who are more likely to become seriously ill with covid are unlikely to frequent nightclubs, which as a rule are usually full of the young and healthy.

Supermarkets and buses, not so much.

Masks protect others from what you may be carrying, they don't protect you unless others are wearing them.

@Lockheart

Older people who are more likely to become seriously ill with covid are unlikely to frequent nightclubs, which as a rule are usually full of the young and healthy.

Supermarkets and buses, not so much.

Masks protect others from what you may be carrying, they don't protect you unless others are wearing them.

Yes but those people in nightclubs then go mingle with their grandmas and families, go to areas where they don't need to wear a face mask etc. It still does not make sense does it?

It’s the vaccine passports that baffle me. It makes more sense for everyone to show a negative test to get in to cinemas etc than it does for someone that has had two jabs five months and 15 days ago to wave a vaccine passport around, when they can still have and pass on covid. But as someone upthread said - it’s performance theatre.

Yes but those people in nightclubs then go mingle with their grandmas and families, go to areas where they don't need to wear a face mask etc. It still does not make sense does it?

Depends how responsible you're being. I've been to nightclubs over the summer without a mask, and had a great time for what it's worth. But no way would I have gone to visit my parents (one of whom is vulnerable) for at least 10 days after, and I take LFTs regularly in any case. I've also never stopped wearing masks in shops or public transport etc.

Well it's still recommended that we do lateral flow weekly, which would address your 'point' that vaccines don't mean you can never get covid or pass it on.

Are you doing that?

@Palavah I don’t know if you were addressing me, but my ‘point’ wasn’t that vaccines were pointless. I think evidence shows that they are effective at preventing serious illness/hospitalisation/death, my point was more that basing entrance to establishments shouldn’t be based on the have/have nots in relation to vaccines, as vaccine doesn’t equal covid free.

If the aim is to show that everyone entering whatever establishment it is, is covid free, then a negative test is still the most logical solution.

shockedNeighbour

Stop spreading anti vaxx crap you irresponsible !

It’s about reducing risk without bankrupting businesses/putting peoples jobs at risk.

There are more likely to be vulnerable people on transport and out shopping also.
Personally I think it’s a sensible move whilst further data is gathered regarding the new variant. If they find that the vaccines hold up against it the restrictions will likely be dropped again at the review.
If they don’t and more people get seriously ill more restrictions will be brought in.

I think "they" still dont really think masks help. Remember for ages we were told (when govt couldn't get hold of PPE) that they do more harm than good if not used in a medical setting/not worn correctly/changed regularly etc?

This.new mask decree is to be seen to be doing "something" but I don't think the powers that be agree on whether it helps.

Or, all the measures are to reduce/slow the spread. They were never intended to eliminate it, so they put in the least difficult measures first.

Because doing something is better than doing nothing
Because we can't halt the whole economy again
Because life has to go on.

@alohamolly i was addressing OP.

Agree vaccine passports alone are no good if someone is vaccinated but carrying covid. Unfortunately I can't see the public becoming better at regular lat flow testing without enforcement, and I can't see enforcement being popular.

Better management of risk in places where people have to go. Vulnerable people or those particularly concerned about/higher risk of suffering badly from Covid probably won't be going to nightclubs, but they may have to use public transport for work and go into shops to buy food or other supplies. So it reduces the risk in places that can't always be avoided.

@MrsFin

Because doing something is better than doing nothing Because we can't halt the whole economy again Because life has to go on.

So why won't they rule out a lockdown? The country can't cope with another lockdown. Businesses can't, the tax payer can't, mental health teams/CAMHS can't, the every day citizen can't. They haven't even really proven masks work have they..?

@Theplantisgrowing what I posted was an ACTUAL FACT. If you have information that proves that fact wrong I'd love to see it as I've been following the news very closely over the past 2 years and have not seen any articles indicating that the situation has changed.

It speaks volumes that Mumsnet deleted my post which is a provable fact.

Things aren’t making sense because the measures have been inconsistent and don't “follow the science” but instead balance the money with the science (in my view badly but I am biased as I’m viewing it as someone within the NHS). I understand the government have a tricky balance and job but really they need to be open and honest that they don’t appear to be following the science.

Re masks there’s a great, readable and science based Twitter thread here from Prof Tricia Greenhalgh: twitter.com/trishgreenhalgh/status/1414294003479089154?s=21

It’s not all or nothing It’s about balance of benefit vs impact.

For most people wearing masks in shops end on public transport is a minor inconvenience. Lots of people use both so it covers a lot of potential close contacts.

Big impact, minimal inconvenience.

Masks in clubs/bars etc would have less impact as fewer people use them and it would have a much more severe impact on the viability of those businesses.

@shockedNeighbour what did you say?

The logic is that vulnerable people NEED to go to the supermarket and on public transport and so everyone should respect their need / desire to stay safe by wearing masks. Nightclubs are a choice, if you don’t care or worry about getting covid then go on in but you don’t have to.

were heading for a lockdown i wont comply with masks and i wont comply with a lockdown.

shockedNeighbour no it speaks volumes that you are not allowed to spread misinformation to an already highly fuelled situation. Quite right that your post was deleted, good for mnet.

@ChristmasScrooge

How does this make sense?

We have to mask up on public transport and shops... but you can go into a nightclub where people are hugging/mingling more and you don't have to wear one?

WHERE IS THE LOGIC?

Anyone else fed up of all coronavirus crap? Let us live, the death toll isn't correct. Whose to say those people didn't test positive but yet died of cancer? Or got hit by a bus or whatever?

And how does having a vaccine protect others? When you can still catch covid and pass it on?

None of it makes any sense.

How about just shutting up and doing as asked instead of complaining. It’s the one thing about MN that annoys the shit out of me when stupid comments like this go up, and there have been a number of them this time

I think you will find millions, literally millions more people, of all ages, use public transport and go to the shops

It’s thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands who go to nightclubs, pubs etc. And as to the latter most pubs in our area still follow some form of covid guidance. As to nightclubs it’s mainly the young who, we are told, are less affected

As to the vaccine are you really that stupid? Of course it’s still possible to catch and pass on, just as it’s still possible to catch flu if you have the flu jab, but if you do get it symptoms are much less and hopefully far fewer people need hospitalisation that’s the point of it. And it also means far less people off sick, thus making sure businesses are less impacted and loose less money

Does it make sense now? Or would you prefer we did nothing and let any variant just run riot, with the resultant impact in the NHS, schools closing, businesses folding etc
.

Because shops and public transport are essential services. Lots of people have no choice but to be there. Nightclubs are a personal choice. If you're scared of covid or vulnerable, you don't go.

How is this difficult?

@dabbydeedoo

Because shops and public transport are essential services. Lots of people have no choice but to be there. Nightclubs are a personal choice. If you're scared of covid or vulnerable, you don't go.

How is this difficult?

Because those people mingling in nightclubs still mix with the rest of society?