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New Covid variant *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

998 replies

Wingingthis · 25/11/2021 11:56

Can anyone talk some sense about how dangerous this is or is it just the media over exaggerating?

OP posts:
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Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/11/2021 23:30

Just hearing the news lead with one more case is too much. I know we have to care about this variant but lead story about 3rd, gngng

Sadly it was to be expected, Marsha - right up there with the BBC report about the "tragedy" of a 93 year old dying. Awful for her loved ones of course, but a tragedy??

Equally expected is that the media are absolutely salivating over this

isthismylifenow · 29/11/2021 06:14

@TheDudesmummy

Have you been in touch with your daughter again?

Not sure if you listened to Cyril last night. It seems there may be heated discussions about us being absolutely vilified and shut out of the world as we happened to find the strain. He is in communications with other PM's to open us up again. But, BA has opened up some flights again, starting tomorrow. So I do think it will be possible for your daughter to travel back, possibly via UK, I doubt she will be stranded here.

All of these links to what is or isn't happening is quite a minefield of information. Some of these 'experts' linked I have never heard of. So, I am simply going with the information we here are being given, and that it is too early to tell... no-one is here saying it is serious, mild, affecting only the young etc. It is too soon and they just do not know yet.

I think if our scientist were so open to the world about it, they are going to tell us what we need to know.

In the meantime, we have been placed under no further restrictions. As ever, we continue to wear masks, sanitize, social distance etc. And of course encouraging those who are not vaccinated, to do so.
And we will have an update in a week or sooner if necessary.

theDudesmummy · 29/11/2021 07:35

Hi, yes I did listen to Cyril, and I see some flights are still going...She is booked on Air France, which cancelled their flights over the weekend and hasn't yet said what they are doing today. She did a pcr yesterday so is awaiting the result. Let's hope it is negative and that Air France resume. I see the other flights going, no idea at how full they are...or what they will cost! I do think countries have acted rather oddly, Omicron is undoubtedly everywhere already, and I don't see how allowing your own nationals to travel from SA but not other people will make any difference. I am on the super cautious side of the spectrum when it comes to restrictions, lockdowns etc, but even I think that everyone's decision making on Friday was over the top...and unfair on the African nations

Thewiseoneincognito · 29/11/2021 07:48

Japan have closed their borders. I would really like to know what they’re seeing to prompt such a move at this point.

EasterIssland · 29/11/2021 07:49

@Thewiseoneincognito

Japan have closed their borders. I would really like to know what they’re seeing to prompt such a move at this point.
They has barely opened them (only Japanese people was allowed in I believe ) so it’s not difficult for them to close them.
isthismylifenow · 29/11/2021 07:52

@TheDudesmummy

I think it is a case of let's wait and see, as things seem to be changing by the hour. I see poor old Zambia got plonked onto the list now, I don't even think they have identified any Omicron cases yet.

Quartz2208 · 29/11/2021 07:53

Presumably they are seeing that the Europe countries that have found Omicron by and large have started fifth waves so they want to avoid it.

They have been fairly locked down throughout it isn’t hard to see why they have made this decision

RedToothBrush · 29/11/2021 07:57

Apparently health officials are currently investigating 75 probable omicron cases in the uk and another 150 possible cases.

Given that it was only apparently discovered Wednesday, and countries added to the red list and flights immediately stopped Thursday and we have the most extensive testing in the world for variants it does highlight how bloody useless border closures are to the uk because we have so many people passing through.

There is quite a bit of concern about how travel PCRs will pick up Omicron cases promptly enough to limit the numbers who ignore quarantine rules awaiting a negative result. People will go nuts if they are waiting days and days. Apparently this variant is fortunate in that in some regular testing systems they get information about a positive but there is a protein missing which distinguishes it from other variants meaning they don't necessarily have to send these samples for sequencing too before saying its a case of concern. They can reasonably say this is a case of omicron and then confirm it later. The problem is not all labs are testing for this protein so this raises the question of if you test positive on return to the uk how long do you wait for that result or do you get informed you are positive but still have to isolate pending a further test to confirm the variant - and how long this will take?

So back to my original point and 'probable' cases. What is this about and why are these suspicious cases that they haven't yet confirmed?

Are these close contacts or people who have returned from Southern Africa in the last week? Or are they positive cases that have been picked up by labs purely for this missing protein and have now been sent for sequencing? And crucially when are these dated and have these people been told? The longer it takes to get a result the more likely people are to just ignore self isolating rules...

The rumour certainly suggests we are about to get told that omicron is already spreading fast within the UK and that efforts to slow the spread using masks and isolation by variant type are going to be pretty damn useless.

I can well see advice to work from home where possible being likely this side of Christmas as its what SAGE say is the measure which has the greatest impact on transmission before you start to hit more strict restrictions.

I still don't think we will see a Christmas lockdown but a post Christmas lockdown is something that possibly is back on the cards. Nor do i think that the government will seek to reimpose social distancing or vaccine passports for pubs / restaurants in England this side of Christmas. The gamble being that omicron may turn out to be less severe than previous variants. I was reading last night that the case fatality rate for each new dominant variant (original, alpha and delta) has roughly halved (though i cavet this by saying that could be merely flawed data as testing has become more comprehensive or simply from treatment improving).

How long it will take to establish how much of a threat omicron is, is a massive issue now and I think its going to get really politicised with one camp pushing for hard restrictions immediately and another urging patience and monitoring first before acting rashly. The government is likely to be in the later camp wanting to protect the December economy which is crucial. Labour will have a lot in the shut everything camp but i wonder whether the shadow cabinet will also take the gamble. (I'm thinking the LD will go hard line and the Scottish and Welsh governments will go hard line). And i do wonder if government back benchers will break ranks.

Things are going to get fracious quickly. This week is going to be extremely testing (sic) if those numbers of 75 and 150 are right and cases are going to rapidly spiral at an alarming speed.

I wonder how long the government will manage public fears on this one. Any new restrictions without significant credible data will spark civil unrest of some sort. Whether that manifests as protests or more spontaneous rioting is a question with no answer.

Am i worried? Concerned at this stage but still a way to go before I start to think we are in trouble. I'm still reasonably optimistic at this point - we shall see if that lasts the week! I am still thinking Christmas isn't going to be disrupted for most people. Test positive or get pinged as a close contact and you will be stuffed. The trouble is I do see the likelihood of many ignoring advice and actively avoiding testing particularly if we hear of lengthening test turnaround times. Which I do think is almost inevitable tbh. I really think turnaround times is the thing to watch this week - especially on those rumoured omicron cases. It matters hugely in terms of how quickly the situation will go downhill both in practical terms and political terms.

I really think we will have huge problems with lab capacity over Christmas too with extra demand from both outgoing and returning holiday makers at the same time as lab workers take Christmas leave. Its normally a peak time for travel. I can well see a lot of people out of pocket missing flights out and lots of returning passengers waiting up to a week for a negative result. If they can book a test at all...

Fun times.

RedToothBrush · 29/11/2021 08:01

@Thewiseoneincognito

Japan have closed their borders. I would really like to know what they’re seeing to prompt such a move at this point.
Its a fairly culturally closed country to begin with which had a very tight reign on restrictions already. I wouldn't read into it as being something significantly removed from where they already were. They also have had significant vaccine hesitancy which they've only recently managed to get to grips with. There was already widespread concern that they are going to follow the pattern in Europe with a large stike in cases in the coming months with a delta wave even though cases currently remain low.
JanglyBeads · 29/11/2021 08:07

RTB I agree with your comments re the next couple of months.

Suspected cases are surely those with S gene drop out, of the bare 50% of tests that can detect that. (Lab equipment plus some samples don’t have enough virus in them apparently).

RedToothBrush · 29/11/2021 08:10

@JanglyBeads

RTB I agree with your comments re the next couple of months.

Suspected cases are surely those with S gene drop out, of the bare 50% of tests that can detect that. (Lab equipment plus some samples don’t have enough virus in them apparently).

Yeah S gene drop out is the marker i was talking about. (couldn't remember what it was called)

If its only 50% of labs with ability to test for it, then thats going to be a massive car crash which will really put the government under pressure by the middle of next week. At the latest.

Thewiseoneincognito · 29/11/2021 08:11

@RedToothBrush Isn’t their vaccination rate quite a bit better than ours though? I’m sure I saw it was around 77% where ours is in the 68-69% range. To be fair if they’ve managed to keep their rates under control I don’t blame them for not wanting to follow our lead.

I’m now waiting to see what China does once they detect cases.

JanglyBeads · 29/11/2021 08:11

Zahawi said yesterday that they’ll be getting new equipment or more labs but no timescale…..

bumbleymummy · 29/11/2021 08:12

Seeing as it’s clearly spread everywhere already, closing the borders seems pointless. Let’s just open up and get on with it.

ChequerBoard · 29/11/2021 08:15

@bumbleymummy

Seeing as it’s clearly spread everywhere already, closing the borders seems pointless. Let’s just open up and get on with it.

What? With no idea what we are dealing with or the impact slowing it run rampant may have?

Great strategic thinking there. Let's at least learn the lessons of the early days of last year.

Thewiseoneincognito · 29/11/2021 08:21

Sorry I’ve Just read your post @RedToothBrush. Hopefully if more countries start closing their borders the travel testing may still work. If we are one of the first with high case rates then perhaps we’ll be placed on red lists sooner rather than later.

I can see the next few weeks being a mess in terms of messaging to the public, as you say it’s very polarising and we are in the midst of the perfect storm for a variant to take hold quickly with freezing weather, festive mixing, very few mitigation’s and a Covid fatigued population.

ElectraBlue · 29/11/2021 08:22

I just don't understand the hysteria and some the narratives are just bizarre.

The new variant has just been identified but it is likely it has been circulating for a good while which is why cases are being picked up everywhere now. All the cases have been mild and people have recovered which is why the variant was only picked up recently.

So why is the media/government narrative selling it like it has only starting spreading this week (which makes it sound like a dramatic explosion) and that it is lethal (when Covid has a 90% plus recovery rate and this variant has seen mild cases only?)

This is why I think people are getting fed up with this. The rampant scaremongering rather than a calm and objective reporting of the facts.

Quartz2208 · 29/11/2021 08:25

Personally I think sequencing was stopped as it was felt Delta was unlikely to be overtaken and that omicron has been around for awhile - hence the Europe spikes and that South Africa merely highlighted it

Japan went from 3.5% in June to its high rate in 6 months it went to 76%

China is still fairly locked down isn’t it - not sure where they can go

The US seem to not even be bothering to find it just assuming it is there

isthismylifenow · 29/11/2021 08:32

The US seem to not even be bothering to find it just assuming it is there

Yet the US has placed us (South Africans) on the red list as well.

The rampant scaremongering rather than a calm and objective reporting of the facts

I agree Electra. And I am in the midst of the apparent storm. I live in Gauteng. We have been told to just continue doing what we are (ie continuing with what we already are with masks, sd etc) until they know what they are dealing with.

I did step away from this thread for a few days. I had to for my own mental health. The scaremongering is quite something.

PiffleWiffleWoozle · 29/11/2021 08:42

Apparently health officials are currently investigating 75 probable omicron cases in the uk and another 150 possible cases.

😱 Is there a source for this @RedToothBrush or is that something you have heard behind the scenes?

SickAndTiredAgain · 29/11/2021 08:45

do you get informed you are positive but still have to isolate pending a further test to confirm the variant

What do you mean? If you are positive you’d have to isolate anyway, regardless of variant?

MumbleCrumbs · 29/11/2021 08:52

I want to believe the rumours of it being milder, but shutting borders is a serious thing to do, especially at this time of year. I'm not sure so many countries would be doing it unless there was real reason for concern.

Quartz2208 · 29/11/2021 08:54

You would have thought the past nearly 2 years has taught us you cannot stop it merely delay in order to give you more time to get your house in order.

The WHO is clear I think that the worry and concern for this is because of those countries that due to vaccine inequality etc dont at all and it could have severe consequences.

For us - boosters being brought forward, second jabs for 12-15 (which I would hope is announced soon) mask wearing, some sensible decision making is about all we can do.

And I would hope the borders are reopened to Amber so some sensible testing plans

theDudesmummy · 29/11/2021 08:56

Flightradar24 is showing tonight's Air France as cancelled already...

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