Natural immunity BBC article

[Russianmax]

This is not purely about natural immunity. But I thought it was interesting as this article puts natural immunity on an equal footing with vaccine immunity.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59378849

Also it is just interesting that natural immunity has been acknowledged at all.

Not sure what I'm trying to say. Perhaps just that if we could understand that both forms of immunity are important, and this could be discussed in the media more often, there may be less divide between the unvaxxed and vaxxed - and hostility between people in general.

I recently had an antibody test and still have antibodies 13 months later.

@Tealightsandd

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-party-death-italy-bolzano-b1962661.html

A man has reportedly died and others are in intensive care after attending “coronavirus parties” in a bid to catch the disease.

The 55-year-old man died in Austria last week after becoming infected with Covid-19 during one such event in the city of Bolzano in South Tyrol, northern Italy.

At least three other people, including a child, are said to have been hospitalised in the Alpine region after catching the virus at similar events.

N=1

I’m not recommending it, but it doesn’t really tell us anything

N=1

@hamstersarse

In the article it says

Patrick Franzoni, co-ordinator of the anti-Covid unit in Bolzano, told Italian newspaper Il Dolomiti: “We have received more than one account from doctors of patients who admitted to having been infected on purpose.

“[They do this] to develop antibodies, and to obtain the green pass without vaccination,” he said.

“There are long-term consequences and even young people can end up in hospital.”

The Prosecutor’s Office in Bolzano has now reportedly opened an investigation into the so-called “corona-parties”.The practice is also thought to be widespread in Austria and Germany, with some anti-vaccine parents reportedly involving their children.

@saltedcaramel1

N=1

@hamstersarse

In the article it says

Patrick Franzoni, co-ordinator of the anti-Covid unit in Bolzano, told Italian newspaper Il Dolomiti: “We have received more than one account from doctors of patients who admitted to having been infected on purpose.

“[They do this] to develop antibodies, and to obtain the green pass without vaccination,” he said.

“There are long-term consequences and even young people can end up in hospital.”

The Prosecutor’s Office in Bolzano has now reportedly opened an investigation into the so-called “corona-parties”.The practice is also thought to be widespread in Austria and Germany, with some anti-vaccine parents reportedly involving their children.

The sud Tyrol region is pretty much covid central as far as Italy goes, highest number of no vaxxers and infections. Mayors of a couple of cities have put them into red zone lockdown.

The consequence of trying to force vaccine passports on people.

@bumbleymummy

The consequence of trying to force vaccine passports on people.

Or as a consequence of including previous infection in the possibilities - has been advised against from the start as it encourages people to get infected.

You've been arguing for it to included for yonks @bumbleymummy, why the U turn now?

I’m against vaccine passports altogether. I think I’ve been pretty clear on that point. :) If they do exist then of course proof of previous infection should be included. Tbh I think proof of a negative test for everyone, regardless of vaccine status would make the most sense though.

@bumbleymummy

The consequence of trying to force vaccine passports on people.

Consequence of being a fuckwit

We all had covid, quite certain we xaught it from working on a covid positive ward. Lots of staff were off with it around same time. I'm applying for other jobs and as soon as I have something, I'm gone due to making vaccines compulsory for NHS. I can't believe they actually went through it with care homes.
It was a mild illness, I've had worse colds before and since. For the vast majority is is mild. I've had covid, I've seen covid, I'm tired of everyone assuming whoever doesn't want a new vaccine is wearing a metal hat. We don't need 3 vaccines a year for flu. It doesn't stop you getting it, or spreading it. It apparently lesson symptoms but how do we know those wouldn't have mild symptoms and most did pre-vaccine? First it was the vaccine, then double jabbed, then the boosters, where does it end? We are actually still learning about short term affects not alone long term.

I'm not scared of catching covid any more than the common cold. Norovirus? That I would like to avoid but I suppose if I catch it I catch it.

Now we have a great proportion of the population who have subsequently been infected with COVID, should it be considered "equal" to vaccine induced immunity. Personally, I think it's not really a comparison that can be made - as I said, infection induced immunity is variable. We know from studies that people who are subsequently vaccinated have boosted immunity and are less likely to be reinfected.

Vaccine induces immunity is variable too. Surely that's why so many vaccinated people are catching Covid.

And I'm not talking about waning immunity because people I know who've caught Covid recently have recently had their booster or teenagers who've recently had their first vaccine.

@Russianmax

Now we have a great proportion of the population who have subsequently been infected with COVID, should it be considered "equal" to vaccine induced immunity. Personally, I think it's not really a comparison that can be made - as I said, infection induced immunity is variable. We know from studies that people who are subsequently vaccinated have boosted immunity and are less likely to be reinfected.

Vaccine induces immunity is variable too. Surely that's why so many vaccinated people are catching Covid.

And I'm not talking about waning immunity because people I know who've caught Covid recently have recently had their booster or teenagers who've recently had their first vaccine.

That was the rest of my paragraph in my post...

So some people who have had coronavirus may have immunity that is equal/greater than someone doubly vaccinated, true. But until we're at a point when this can be identified, there's going to a one-size fits all approach in terms of recommendations as there isn't really an alternative.

Yes, vaccine induced immunity is variable. But just because it is also imperfect, isn't really a reason to say people with a previous infection won't benefit from vaccination.

Right now we don't have a way of identifying who with a previous infection has the kind of level of immunity that will prevent a second infection. It is, as other posters have said, a very active area of research, but right now it's not possible to identify this cohort of people.

What we do know, is that on a population-level, vaccination of people with a previous infection leads to a robust level of immunity that makes you less likely to be infected, which is why it's currently recommeded everyone goes onto have at least one vaccination post-infection.

Whether you think this is a good enough reason is an individual decision. It certainly changes the benefit/risk profile.

@bumbleymummy

Delta wasn’t dominant in the US in May/June 21.

Immune response to the vaccine is also variable.

It was dominant in early July, so obviously spreading like wildfire in May/June.

www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210707/delta-dominant-us-coronavirus-variant

Hybrid immunity appears better than either alone, but obviously requires the risk of an active case to get it.

Apologies if this study has been posted before. It's about a month old.

New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection - Study participants were over 5 times more likely to have COVID-19 if they were unvaccinated and had a prior infection

Surely it’s better to be fairly recently vaccinated and then have Covid. That way you have antibodies to the spike protein from the vaccine and antibodies from natural infection.
This was the idea around opening everything up in July shortly after the most vulnerable had been vaccinated.
Hopefully this dual level immunity should persist through the winter.

@MissConductUS

Hybrid immunity appears better than either alone, but obviously requires the risk of an active case to get it.

Apologies if this study has been posted before. It's about a month old.

New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection - Study participants were over 5 times more likely to have COVID-19 if they were unvaccinated and had a prior infection

Hadn't seen that one!

Yes, more evidence demonstrating there are benefits to vaccination post infection

What I would love to know (and I don't think there's much out there yet) is if there's much benefit to having a booster if you are doubly vaccinated and subesquently get infected with coronavirus. It'll be relevant to a lot of people..

Have only been able to find a comment from Tim Spector which I agree with (though doesn't really answer the question), but as far as I know not based on data:

Do I need a booster jab if I’ve already had COVID?

Tim says, “ If you’re not yet eligible for a booster, but have had a previous infection and two vaccines, I wouldn't be too worried as your protection will be very high. It’s important we focus on the number of high-risk people who remain unvaccinated, which is still too high, as we fall behind the rest of Europe, slowing our progress in reducing rates of infection and bringing the pandemic to an end.”

covid.joinzoe.com/post/do-i-need-a-covid-vaccine-if-ive-had-covid

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-unvaccinated-mother-27-dies-with-coronavirus-as-her-father-calls-for-fines-for-people-who-refuse-jab-12477408

The risk of natural immunity.

The USA seems keen on boosters.

time.com/6122986/are-booster-shots-necessary/

This is the CDC on vaccination after COVID infection.

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html

Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19 because:

Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19.

Vaccination helps protect you even if you’ve already had COVID-19.

Evidence is emerging that people get better protection by being fully vaccinated compared with having had COVID-19. One study showed that unvaccinated people who already had COVID-19 are more than 2 times as likely than fully vaccinated people to get COVID-19 again.

Much better to have natural immunity than getting regularly injected with a vaccine. I would also like to see a public health campaign encouraging everyone to look after and boost their immune systems by eating properly and exercising. The NHS can only do so much..

Vaccines reduce transmission. As do masks.

www.health-ni.gov.uk/news/public-health-measures-effective-reducing-spread-covid-19

People who are fully vaccinated against Covid-19 are less likely to pass it on to others. They are less likely to catch the virus in the first place, and even if they become infected there is evidence that they are less likely to transmit it to others.

A separate global study highlights mask-wearing as the single most effective public health measure at tackling Covid. The study, which has been published in the British Medical Journal, analysed data from over 70 individual studies undertaken in USA, Africa, Australia, Europe, South America, Asia and the Middle East.

Researchers from Monash University in Australia found that the studies indicated a 53 per cent reduction in new COVID-19 cases from wearing face masks.

The USA seems keen on boosters.

We are. DH and I have both had ours over a month ago, and my 19 year old DD and 21 year old DS had theirs yesterday. I couldn't be happier about it.

Much better to have natural immunity than getting regularly injected with a vaccine.

Better how, and based on what data? By the way, diet and exercise will only help to the extent that they mitigate a comorbidity, like obesity. I've seen some really fit patients in the covid ICU.

@MissConductUS

If you’ve already had covid and survived, I’m pretty sure you already know you aren’t going to be hospitalised, because you’ve had it?

How can she be sure of that?

Each time is potentially different.

Stretching it a bit there @Tealightsandd

I’m not sure why people won’t accept natural immunity can have it’s place

@Mojoj

Much better to have natural immunity than getting regularly injected with a vaccine. I would also like to see a public health campaign encouraging everyone to look after and boost their immune systems by eating properly and exercising. The NHS can only do so much..

This doesn't make much sense. To have natural immunity, you have to have Covid in the first instance. This might have been mild - or not. It may leave me with long term effects - or not. In this throw of the dice, I'd prefer a vaccine, thanks.