It seems like the U.K. may have a better Covid strategy after all

[Warhertisuff]

... at least since the emergence of Delta. I generally supported the restrictions before last summer, but thought that opening up in July was sensible. It's too early to tell
for sure, but at the moment it looks like the right call.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59378849

@MarshaBradyo
If you want people to engage with your questions, I suggest you learn to debate without coming across as an angry teenager. Some initial hints: try to use respectful language when you address/respond to someone for the first time (yes, even on the internet) , avoid insults about the motives or their character of people you’ve never met and know nothing about, and focus on the arguments.

@MarshaBradyo

I’m dual nationality and the difference stands out wrt to narrative re U.K.

I’ve not seen it for other countries but if it has feel free to quote.

You presumably don't spend loads of time on German, or French, or Hungarian, or US, sites?

Brits are the way they are. We criticise our government, it is our right.

I agree with what the German minister said this week about how we are all going to end up either vaccinated, recovered or dead. Of course we are. We’ve known this for ages. It feels very naive to think you can have it any other way just by wearing a mask or working from home. Europe have just delayed their delta wave, they were never going to avoid delta.

But it’s about balance. So yes we cocked up the care homes, that was a deadly failure BUT we have mostly planned the lifting of restrictions well and those decisions have gone well.
We shouldn’t have closed schools and playgrounds (a mistake imo) BUT we had an excellent vaccine rollout that prioritised well and has had high uptake.
We didn’t support some self employed that fell through the support gaps BUT we had an excellent furlough scheme that saved possibly millions of jobs.
We had no where near enough PPE back in the early days, that was a shambles and no doubt caused unnecessary deaths BUT we invested brilliantly in vaccine production and manufacturing and trials which equally saved many lives.

Testing was crap at the beginning and we should not have stopped doing it BUT now we probably have the best testing system in the world, a million a day tests.

That balance is a much fairer look at the whole response. So neither “plague island” nor “best in the world”

[quote supermoonrising]@MarshaBradyo
If you want people to engage with your questions, I suggest you learn to debate without coming across as an angry teenager. Some initial hints: try to use respectful language when you address/respond to someone for the first time (yes, even on the internet) , avoid insults about the motives or their character of people you’ve never met and know nothing about, and focus on the arguments.[/quote]
Er I haven’t been insulting where?

I am pointing out a difference I see as someone who is not just from U.K.

Yes I’ve found that the narrative is quite extreme on here at times re the U.K. but not other countries

If you have found it different then say where / provide language around it

A direct question isn’t an insult not sure why you find it so

Surely we’ve got more people vaccinated than other countries and that’s why?

I think they done the right thing opening up. It’s manageable at the moment and hopefully will continue to be so.

As long as people get their boosters yearly this is how it’s going to be for years to come.

You can’t keep having lockdowns forever more, because that doesn’t come without huge negative consequences.

Objectively there is a point whereby what’s best for the majority has to prevail. That’s where we’re at now

[quote PAFMO]@Bagamoyo1

That myth has been debunked a thousand times.

Excess deaths prove it. Available for all on the ONS site.[/quote]
Does it just give figures for excess deaths overall?

A genuine query, as there’s surely a huge difference between excess deaths due to people dying from Covid only, and excess deaths owing to a lack of normal treatment/investigations for non-Covid related conditions?

I understand that Covid would still be ‘to blame’ in a way for the latter, but not the direct cause.

In fact angry teen is insulting but fine if that’s how you respond that’s your issue

I don't know the answer to this.

I do know that I can't get any healthcare. It has taken me over a month to just get a GP appointment. I am going to go private but i wonder what people who can't afford that will do.

I don’t think Marsha comes across as an “angry teen”

Key point here:

Our situation owes a lot merely to high public trust in vaccines. We don't really have a sizeable anti vax political movement in the uk. Thats got fuck all to do with our current government really but a long term national love affair and trust in healthcare professionals and the NHS.

Having high levels of vaccine uptake has meant we were in a position to take a choice about opening up earlier.

Germany which has particularly worrying levels low vaccine uptake due to a large anti vax sentiment combined with a lack of fear of covid due to low case rates. It has really meant that opening up as much or as early as the uk isn't really an option on the table.

Given that other countries have, at times, relied on Germany's excess bed capacity when they've struggled, it does make it more of a Europe wide concern because if Germany start to have real issues it has impact elsewhere (this neglects to mention the realities of a landborder and cross border working also being relevant to a high case rate in Germany).

If Germany has significant issues this winter, there will be a ripple effect throughout the EU even for those who don't have a covid problem right now.

And there there is the economics.

The UK economically has to have Christmas and I don't think this should be ignored in terms of cost to health from poverty. Thankfully I don't think it a real risk here in the UK.

If Germany does have that big economic hit through lockdowns and restrictions in December, then there are big ramifications (including for the UK) and that includes on health indirectly.

So I do think its fair to say this is a Europe wide problem for that reason. (Which actually does include the uk albeit to a lesser extent).

@sashagabadon

I don’t think Marsha comes across as an “angry teen”

Thanks

@Staryflight445

Whose actually enjoying their freedom though?

I hate being in shops etc atm, people don’t respect space.
I loved it when we had to separate ourselves and I didn’t have to smell anyone else’s BO or bad breath or having someone breathing down my neck.

Can’t get in a queue lately and leave a small space without someone getting in it.

It still exists, we should be able to take precautions. I’m pregnant and having 2 children at school atm is worrying.

Some of us are happy to lay low/ respect space and try and prevent spread and shouldn’t be put at risk by those who are happy to go back to normal ‘ whatever that means’.

There should be a bit more compromise IMO.

I am. I'm loving my freedom.

I don't consider giving you a bit of space in shops for your own comfort enough of a reason to tank the economy. Sorry.

@MarshaBradyo
Why can’t you find the same sentiment for other countries with high numbers?
We’re on a predominantly UK forum here. People have a stake and interest in this country which they don’t with other countries. They live here, work here, vote here, pay tax here, their friends and families are here. Hence 99% of Covid discussion will be centred around what’s happening in the UK. There’s no conspiracy. It’s just basic human psychology and behaviour.

The vast majority of people in other countries couldn’t give a monkeys what people in the UK/the British government is doing and are focused on their own countries.

@sashagabadon

But it’s about balance. So yes we cocked up the care homes, that was a deadly failure BUT we have mostly planned the lifting of restrictions well and those decisions have gone well. We shouldn’t have closed schools and playgrounds (a mistake imo) BUT we had an excellent vaccine rollout that prioritised well and has had high uptake. We didn’t support some self employed that fell through the support gaps BUT we had an excellent furlough scheme that saved possibly millions of jobs. We had no where near enough PPE back in the early days, that was a shambles and no doubt caused unnecessary deaths BUT we invested brilliantly in vaccine production and manufacturing and trials which equally saved many lives.

Testing was crap at the beginning and we should not have stopped doing it BUT now we probably have the best testing system in the world, a million a day tests.

That balance is a much fairer look at the whole response. So neither “plague island” nor “best in the world”

I feel like some of these is glossing over some really serious errors that the government made, which resulted in people dying.

Care homes scandal.
Pregnant women were told not to get the vaccine and the change in policy just hasn’t been clear.
Schools - at the moment a lot of kids are getting it and spreading it before boosters have been rolled out.
Mixed messaging about masks/restrictions
The ever changing tiers etc

These are not inconsequential things to be brushed over. So on balance, I think the UK has done badly and it has been luck more than judgement where we’ve done “better”.

I wonder, what would have been done differently if Corbyn had won in Dec 2019? Genuine question.

I have two “angry teens” at home. I know one when I see one

@sashagabadon

But it’s about balance. So yes we cocked up the care homes, that was a deadly failure BUT we have mostly planned the lifting of restrictions well and those decisions have gone well. We shouldn’t have closed schools and playgrounds (a mistake imo) BUT we had an excellent vaccine rollout that prioritised well and has had high uptake. We didn’t support some self employed that fell through the support gaps BUT we had an excellent furlough scheme that saved possibly millions of jobs. We had no where near enough PPE back in the early days, that was a shambles and no doubt caused unnecessary deaths BUT we invested brilliantly in vaccine production and manufacturing and trials which equally saved many lives.

Testing was crap at the beginning and we should not have stopped doing it BUT now we probably have the best testing system in the world, a million a day tests.

That balance is a much fairer look at the whole response. So neither “plague island” nor “best in the world”

^This.

I have to say re opening up early, my heart said no because I didn't like it on a personal level in terms of being anxious about it but my head firmly said it was the risk thing to do based on the UK's position and unique circumstances.

All this talk of a tanking economy - there’s plenty of money in the economy as we’ve seen from companies doing very well out of the pandemic.

The pandemic has distracted us from the impact of Brexit and having a Tory government for over 10 years. When we get over the pandemic, things will be in a place where they could have been better. We always settle for not quite good enough.

@rrhuth

Basically this thread is 'I hope they have loads of deaths in Europe to make the UK's permanent high death numbers look less bad in comparison'.

Yes. Spare a thought for the approx 1000 families who are bereaved each week in this country, due to the absence of simple measures like mask-wearing.

Why isn't there an option that we wear masks a little longer and covid goes away?

ok ok so covid won't go away... but slowing down natural transmission somewhat (through masking, tracking and ventilation) whilst increasing vaccination at a decent pace (through boosters and eventually vaccinating youngsters) whilst at the same time new highly effective treatments becoming available... could get to the same levels of immunity without as much cost to life, disruption to education and long covid...

@SecretKeeper1

I wonder, what would have been done differently if Corbyn had won in Dec 2019? Genuine question.

What difference does it make?

To be honest, I think we would have a more transparent government who explained what they were doing and not giving £37,000,000,000 to mates.

Our situation owes a lot merely to high public trust in vaccines. We don't really have a sizeable anti vax political movement in the uk. Thats got fuck all to do with our current government really but a long term national love affair and trust in healthcare professionals and the NHS.

Do you think that level of trust might change if vaccine passports or mandatory vaccines come into force @RedToothBrush?

I've always been on the fence about vaccines and medicine in general. I use it and have been vaccinated/vaccinated my children but always been concerned about side effects of all medicine.

The level of force used to push people into the Covid vaccinations (world wide - but also here/mainly peer pressure and bullying) has made me very sceptical of vaccines now. Or at least I've started to question things much much more now than I ever did before.

@MarshaBradyo
Er I haven’t been insulting where?

In the last two pages, you said that one poster wants to see “higher numbers”. I can’t think of much else worse than that.
You also labelled people who criticise the government as “anti UK”.
That’s in just the last two pages. I’ll be generous and just say you need to work on how you communicate online.

@sashagabadon

I have two “angry teens” at home. I know one when I see one

Haha I have a three year old type the teen is mild!