It seems like the U.K. may have a better Covid strategy after all

[Warhertisuff]

... at least since the emergence of Delta. I generally supported the restrictions before last summer, but thought that opening up in July was sensible. It's too early to tell
for sure, but at the moment it looks like the right call.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59378849

Wasn't the UK's strategy to let people die?

Not sure it's something to celebrate

@MarshaBradyo

took precedence over the needs of the population

No because most of the population do not want increased restrictions.

There is always a choice between deaths or mitigations, and the government chose deaths.

If you support the deaths, you're happy with where we are I guess.

I support fewer restrictions so yes I’ll be happy if this approach works and we avoid lockdown.

It would be hugely damaging and I hope we’ve got it right.

This is simply an insane take on where we are. Yes, some European countries have got a spike happening as the weather gets colder. We've been having a spike since July.
144,286 people have died within 28 days, or 165,264 within 60 in the UK in all of this.
113 children have died.

How can anyone possibly think we have a good strategy here?
The government could have put measures in schools. They could have simply told people to wear masks on public transport, and in enclosed spaces. And we could have avoided thousands of deaths and even more of long covid. We're not being cared for by the people in charge, and I think they've handled it all appallingly.

Having more working from home and the legal requirement for face coverings on public transport and shops I think could go a long way, together with some restrictions such as separate school entrances.

We never had anything remotely like a lockdown but even so I would not want the level of restrictions we had between March and July 2020.

@duffeldaisy

This is simply an insane take on where we are. Yes, some European countries have got a spike happening as the weather gets colder. We've been having a spike since July. 144,286 people have died within 28 days, or 165,264 within 60 in the UK in all of this. 113 children have died.

How can anyone possibly think we have a good strategy here?
The government could have put measures in schools. They could have simply told people to wear masks on public transport, and in enclosed spaces. And we could have avoided thousands of deaths and even more of long covid. We're not being cared for by the people in charge, and I think they've handled it all appallingly.

When you say spike you need to look at rate of increase.

@MarshaBradyo

I support fewer restrictions so yes I’ll be happy if this approach works and we avoid lockdown.

It would be hugely damaging and I hope we’ve got it right.

I appreciate you being clear that you favour deaths over any restrictions.

So many people try to pretend they don't want the deaths, it is an unfortunate unavoidable situation.

No. It is a policy choice.

UK government have chosen the highest number of deaths they think they can get away with politically.

I won’t be alone at this point. I know people favour lockdowns etc but they are hugely damaging, catastrophic at this stage.

So yes if the summer peak allows us to avoid that then tg.

It's not just the rate of increase. Our current rate of increase this week has been around 15% up on the same days last week. Which doesn't seem much. But 15% of an average of 43,295 cases per day is a huge number. If we'd kept cases at 10x lower, as in most EU countries, then even a 100% rise is far fewer cases, deaths etc.

The more mitigations we put in (eg masks inside public transport or buildings, HEPA filters in classrooms and offices) the fewer cases there would be, and the less chance of a lockdown.
It's not lockdown or death.
It's mitigations or death/long covid/grief etc.

To say someone favours deaths is the same as saying someone favours huge damage from lockdowns, especially the impact to children, some very badly so. Which I guess some do but it seems unnecessarily emotive when talking about ah approach that has always been about healthcare capacity.

One of the biggest lies told by our disgusting and corrupt government is if you would like our death rates to have been lower or to be lower going forwards you want permanent lockdown. This is just bullshit.

I see shithead Johnson had his mask round his chin in the theatre. The man is just an arsehole.

I can’t do all that stuff, people get far too get up on masks when it’s a very small factor and I still wear the things.

As so many others in London on PT

What i don’t understand is why is this a competition as to ‘who had the better strategy?’

Whatever the strategy on each individual country, ultimately life cannot return to what it was until the majority of the world is all at the same stage, whether that be vaccinations, immunity from having contracted, boosters, drugs for treatment. The UK doing well for a few months in comparison to their nearest neighbours does nothing other than boost the egos of the British. For a while. Tourism, travel, intentional sports, intentional business… (and oh so much more) rely on the ability to travel freely beaten countries and continents.

But no. Apparently Britain winning is all that matters.

"people get far too get up on masks when it’s a very small factor "

It's really not. It's a huge factor when you're dealing with an airborne virus. Vaccines, masks and fresh air are the most important things. But because not enough people are being vaccinated fast enough, it's even more urgent for people to keep their particles to themselves for a while. And masks are a cheap and effective way of doing that.

@duffeldaisy

"people get far too get up on masks when it’s a very small factor "

It's really not. It's a huge factor when you're dealing with an airborne virus. Vaccines, masks and fresh air are the most important things. But because not enough people are being vaccinated fast enough, it's even more urgent for people to keep their particles to themselves for a while. And masks are a cheap and effective way of doing that.

How do you define huge?

And what proportion of population are still wearing them - because as I said we still have them in London in some cases

Is it a bigger factor than high immunity?

@MarshaBradyo

To say someone favours deaths is the same as saying someone favours huge damage from lockdowns, especially the impact to children, some very badly so. Which I guess some do but it seems unnecessarily emotive when talking about ah approach that has always been about healthcare capacity.

Well, I appreciate there are many disadvantages of lockdown.

It may well be that the position of vulnerable children was not the foremost consideration in much of the pandemic response and that the wishes of party donors, business contacts and similar considerations would instead have loomed large.

It will be wonderful if all the people who have become champions of children's rights during the pandemic join their voices & insist on decent catch up funding for education and similar measures. I will look forward to seeing that.

Every time Europe has an upsurge, we go all “British Exceptionalism” and claim that something we have done means it won’t happen here.

Every time, that has been wrong and we face the same wave as Europe just a few weeks later.

The truth is, nobody knows what will happen next. We are at the very beginning of the winter, which has proven to be problematic in the past. We should hope for the best but hold any gloating til we get through it.

many disadvantages of lockdown.

Another one would be more stark than this.

Yes don’t worry I care about children's rights.

It’s interesting how different peple feel a different way isn’t it @LeaveYourHatOn.

I have to wear a mask for work and to be honest, I’m nit really bothered by them. I can see how not being able to read facial expressions could be an issue with children (and the teachers working with them) but Ime you also learn to read said faces with a mask on too. I’ve been known to forget I’m wearing one and still have it when I arrive back home (driving in my own car, on my own!). From what I’ve seen, many teenagers are the same when they get out of school!

I’ve been back to France a few times now and I’ve always felt safer. I mean I didn’t fancy the 1000 per 100.000 cases we had at some point. I couldn’t see many differences. Masks in shop - tick. Mask in public transport - tick. Covid passport - ok Not a lot for changes for me tbh.

Another factor is the flu/RSV added to covid.

Masks are liable to help with reducing those figures too, especially high grade ones.

[quote Warhertisuff]... at least since the emergence of Delta. I generally supported the restrictions before last summer, but thought that opening up in July was sensible. It's too early to tell
for sure, but at the moment it looks like the right call.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59378849[/quote]
It is too early to tell.

@duffeldaisy

"people get far too get up on masks when it’s a very small factor "

It's really not. It's a huge factor when you're dealing with an airborne virus. Vaccines, masks and fresh air are the most important things. But because not enough people are being vaccinated fast enough, it's even more urgent for people to keep their particles to themselves for a while. And masks are a cheap and effective way of doing that.

Countries WITH rules forcing the wearing of masks are also seeing huge spikes in infections, so they're not really stopping the spread.

@MarshaBradyo

I won’t be alone at this point. I know people favour lockdowns etc but they are hugely damaging, catastrophic at this stage.

So yes if the summer peak allows us to avoid that then tg.

The question isn’t whether lockdowns can be catastrophic.

It’s undeniable that lockdowns have some massive issues, and not just about the economy.

The question is whether the excess deaths associated with our very high level of cases and deaths in the summer will actually have been lower than if we had had lower cases in the summer but a spike in the winter.
As it stands we might well still have a spike in the winter… we don’t know (yet)

@duffeldaisy

This is simply an insane take on where we are. Yes, some European countries have got a spike happening as the weather gets colder. We've been having a spike since July. 144,286 people have died within 28 days, or 165,264 within 60 in the UK in all of this. 113 children have died.

How can anyone possibly think we have a good strategy here?
The government could have put measures in schools. They could have simply told people to wear masks on public transport, and in enclosed spaces. And we could have avoided thousands of deaths and even more of long covid. We're not being cared for by the people in charge, and I think they've handled it all appallingly.

Some perspective though: 125,000 people died in the first year (March to March) of the pandemic, before we were all vaccinated, 18,000 have died in the 8 months since. I’d call that a vast improvement.