Am I missing something?

[debbs77]

I'm in no way anti-vaccine, and myself and my children are all up to date with routine vaccines.

But I don't understand why people are being given ultimatums, ie possibly losing their job. For a vaccine that was never able to eradicate covid. But lessen the symptoms for the individual.

How can they prove that a vaccinated person spreads it less than an unvaccinated one? Plus, either way they can still spread it!

And as for teens, the actual government website says that the benefit to teens of the jab are only marginally better than if they just caught covid anyway!

So why let everyone bin the masks and mingle at concerts etc, but cause issues for unvaccinated people???

Surely actively looking for information can't be sniffed at? Would you rather I just followed what people blindly share on Facebook? Trying to educate myself is a bad thing now?

Do you class this as research? Asking a question on Mumsnet? Is this "actively looking for information"?

What research is it you do? Why do you think its superior to the research or information other people have?

I agree with you on the masks, BTW, and think it's bonkers that the Government of one country believe they know better than the rest of the world (a very simplistic and generalistic view of it, I know)

debbs77

I'm not against the vaccine......just at people's choices being taken away over a vaccine that doesn't stop it spreading“

No, it doesn’t. Stops quite a lot of people dying, though.

Nice try.

@MrsSkylerWhite

debbs77

I'm not against the vaccine......just at people's choices being taken away over a vaccine that doesn't stop it spreading“

No, it doesn’t. Stops quite a lot of people dying, though.

Nice try.

Yea, the people who choose to be vaccinated! So if you're unvaccinated and willing to take that risk then that is your right!

Nice try.

I reckon we should have an anti vax bingo card going:

Do your own research
99% survival rate
'vaccine'
Vaccines don't stop spread
Sheeple
Long term effects
Clinical trials
More vaxxed than unvaxxed in hospital

...feel free to add more.

I'm so tired of these threads because again and again posters put good robust peer reviewed research up which is so easy to find, such as that above about the 63% reduce in transmission, and again and again it's just ignored. It's exhausting and dispiriting.

@Madhairday

I reckon we should have an anti vax bingo card going:

Do your own research
99% survival rate
'vaccine'
Vaccines don't stop spread
Sheeple
Long term effects
Clinical trials
More vaxxed than unvaxxed in hospital

...feel free to add more.

I'm so tired of these threads because again and again posters put good robust peer reviewed research up which is so easy to find, such as that above about the 63% reduce in transmission, and again and again it's just ignored. It's exhausting and dispiriting.

Agree so, so much with this. And they're so superior with it!

@Madhairday

I reckon we should have an anti vax bingo card going:

Do your own research
99% survival rate
'vaccine'
Vaccines don't stop spread
Sheeple
Long term effects
Clinical trials
More vaxxed than unvaxxed in hospital

...feel free to add more.

I'm so tired of these threads because again and again posters put good robust peer reviewed research up which is so easy to find, such as that above about the 63% reduce in transmission, and again and again it's just ignored. It's exhausting and dispiriting.

TBH, you could probably start a vehemently pro-vax bingo too. Might I suggest:

Get a grip
Tin foil hat
For the great good
Selfish
Bit for society
Moral duty

Or we could not reduce people into two different camps, and accept that there are many different reasons that someone might have gone for the vaccine, just like there are many different reasons that another person is not getting it.

Yea, the people who choose to be vaccinated! So if you're unvaccinated and willing to take that risk then that is your right!

Nice try.“

JadeandGreen

If you are willing to “take that risk”, contract Covid and require hospitalisation, would that change your mind? Would you take vaccination thereafter?

@XenoBitch

Get a grip
Tin foil hat
For the great good
Selfish
Bit for society
Moral duty

Or we could not reduce people into two different camps, and accept that there are many different reasons that someone might have gone for the vaccine, just like there are many different reasons that another person is not getting it.

You know, I suppose you could put me in the 'pro-vax' camp, but I've never said (or posted) any of those things. I think even the term 'pro-vax' is a little asinine, really. I simply want society to get back to normal, and the vaccine is one piece of completing that puzzle.

@Madhairday

I reckon we should have an anti vax bingo card going:

Do your own research
99% survival rate
'vaccine'
Vaccines don't stop spread
Sheeple
Long term effects
Clinical trials
More vaxxed than unvaxxed in hospital

...feel free to add more.

I'm so tired of these threads because again and again posters put good robust peer reviewed research up which is so easy to find, such as that above about the 63% reduce in transmission, and again and again it's just ignored. It's exhausting and dispiriting.

These dangerous loons:

Anti-vax group that targeted 100 schools is run by ex-school governor mol.im/a/10222735 via dailym.ai/android

'Miss Dill, a 32-year-old mother, has posted social media footage of herself telling children Covid jab is 'deadly' and could leave girls infertile; she also claims falsely that 'many' deaths of youngsters are being covered up'

@MrsSkylerWhite

Yea, the people who choose to be vaccinated! So if you're unvaccinated and willing to take that risk then that is your right!

Nice try.“

JadeandGreen

If you are willing to “take that risk”, contract Covid and require hospitalisation, would that change your mind? Would you take vaccination thereafter?

I'm double vaccinated. My children received all their childhood vaccinations. I'm not anti-vax, which people seem to immediately assume if you support others right to choose what goes in their bodies. I just feel this division in society is running out of control due to politicians who do not give a damn about any of us and if for whatever reason people do not feel comfortable getting this particular vaccination then that is their right.

Not read the full thread but seriously @BIWI read the actual paper you linked, not the media article. It is a preprint and it shows the transmission rate was the same for vaccinated and unvaccinated index cases. There have been other papers with the same funding. Vax passports are not about “science”

If somebody has some “good peer reviewed research” that shows efficacy against transmission in delta please do post. Link to the actual research not a media headline. Thanks

I agree with you op.

I find it disturbing that so many here approve of coercion and are so insulting and nasty towards anyone who doesn't agree with them.

If you have a different opinion they will call you moronic- which I just read in one post

They will label you an anti vaxxer to denigrate you

They think they are intellectually and morally superior and they aren't.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext
The lancet respectable enough for you?

Totally agree @ktel1

@Hotcoffee10

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext The lancet respectable enough for you?

The full study www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext was posted by someone else on another thread. It was completely ignored, as it probably will be on this thread too. The study found that the viral load of both vaxed and unvaxed was about the same and concluded that both groups are as likely to transmit covid as each other. That puts a massive spanner in the works for everyone wanting to punish the unvaxed and makes a mockery of their nasty, divisive arguments. So yeah, move along, nothing to see here...

@debbs77

From the New Scientist in Oct 2021.

People who are fully vaccinated against covid-19 are far less likely to infect others, despite the arrival of the delta variant, several studies show. The findings refute the idea, which has become common in some circles, that vaccines no longer do much to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

“They absolutely do reduce transmission,” says Christopher Byron Brooke at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. “Vaccinated people do transmit the virus in some cases, but the data are super crystal-clear that the risk of transmission for a vaccinated individual is much, much lower than for an unvaccinated individual.”

A recent study found that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant are 63 per cent less likely to infect people who are unvaccinated.

@debbs77 I think for me, I’m not an expert, I’m not particularly up to date. I don’t study vast swathes of research documents daily. I have to trust science and I have to trust the doctors, professors and scientists who do this for a living.
Our UK government has not been great in instilling a sense of trust. So restrictions are often seen as a government plan or agenda.

I think it’s so important to extrapolate the two - science and government.
Judging by the fact that many, many countries worldwide are making it mandatory to be vaccinated to work in care homes etc, would make be think it’s a decision based on medical science.

Mandatory vaccination is not a new concept - it was a requirement for troops to be vaccinated against smallpox, and in many countries it’s required for other non Covid diseases.

I think the problem with doing internet searches for articles, is you can always find one that supports your point of view! Your personal bias means that you’ll always search and quote from your belief (as I’ve just done). This is why peer research is so important. And why I’m more prepared to leave it in the safer hands of medical science. I’m nowhere near as qualified as they are.

My point was, @Hotcoffee10, that a Google search very quickly will yield the science/data that so many unvaccinated claim that they need to know.

I'm not getting into Top Trumps with you over which medical medium is the most superior merely pointing out that those who claim they want to 'do my own research' rarely do.

I’m gobsmacked that even now there are people that do not understand that being vaccinated reduced the likelihood of spreading covid.

This is not new information. We have known this for months ! Even a quick google will confirm this.

There’s some interesting data about viral
Load with the self strain being roughly the same but also other data suggests people who are vaccinated are infections for a shorter time period.

But really claiming not to even know how the vaccine works at this late stage is ridiculous.

As predicted posters claiming to be better researched ,intellectually superior and claiming that any dissenters haven't done any research or don't understand .