Lockdown for the unvaccinated - or a full lockdown for everybody?

[PrincessNutNuts]

Which would you choose?

@PinkSkirt

Those saying they are done, did 3 years into WW2 people just say I’m done and I’m switching on the lights at night and not going into the air raid shelter? Wishful thinking could have ended this back in Jan 2020. FFS.

"Bombs keep falling so that's PROOF that the bomb shelters don't work!"

"We need to learn to live with Nazi rule"

"It's my right to have my lights on. There's no evidence your "blackout" does anything."

@Sparklingbrook

Austria is making us choose between the options, but OP says nobody is?

I was unaware that Austria had any jurisdiction over the U.K.

I don't know why OP said that

Mmmm.

[quote NoDecentHandlesLeft]@PrincessNutNuts, it's a smoke screen. Unless you post people outside every unvaccinated persons home to ensure they don't leave, who is going to be checking? No country has the man power to police this, whatever their attitude is or may be towards it. They can probably at a push prevent people working or require some sort of pass to enter public buildings. But who is going to check places like parks, markets etc?[/quote]
I agree.

I'm in Scotland and we have vaccine passports for nightclubs and large scale events. I have friends who have been to Murrayfield a few times since they have brought in vaccine passports and have not been asked.

It's just impossible to check 60 thousand peoples vaccine passports for entry, unless you get them in hours before the start of the event. It's just so it looks like the government is doing somethings, but actually just a tickbox exercise. They will check the bare minimum required to tick the box to say yes we've implemented vaccine passport checks.

For the unvaccinated but only if medically and scientifically needed.

Whilst I think they are anti social idiots I wouldn't put them in lockdown unless absolutely necessary.

@Bluntness100

Just Google it. It is not hard to find

I will provide a link to anything random and hard to find but when someone can’t be arsed and it’s all over the Internet and most media outlets,,nah, I am no one’s secretary, do it yourself. 😂

Ok, I think you’re being unnecessarily rude. Typically, if you quote a figure like that, you post the link to back it up - you don’t tell people to go google it themselves.

After a quick google, I’m seeing lots of articles about unvaccinated people being more likely to die but no obvious studies are coming up about them being 20 times more likely to transmit it. Perhaps it was an old study?

Oh sorry, I didn’t realise that, just Google it’s all over the media, it was done on behalf of the world health organisation.

“Just Google” isn’t a study.

Why won’t you share the specific study you were looking at?

I was unaware that Austria had any jurisdiction over the U.K.

It was news to me too, but that was what another poster answered my question with. 'Austria'

@SoftSheen

No more lockdowns, but enforce mask wearing in public indoor spaces, and show negative tests before entry into large indoor events.

I'm very much pro-vaccine, but the current vaccines unfortunately don't do much to stop the spread of the virus.

They do a lot to stop it, because they reduce the chance of you catching it. Yes, someone vaccinated who is unlucky and catches it is similarly likely as an unvaccinated person to pass it on. BUT still reduces both spread (by being less likely to get it) and severity (by not ending up in hospital, using up an ICU bet and at the same time passing it on to health care workers and vulnerable patients).

DP is vaccinated. He never washes his hands now, as if he thinks he’s invincible, shakes hands with various people at work, is back in the office, has family round all the time and his DCs have sleepovers regularly, one of which spread covid around all their friends. He’s also travelled abroad several times this year.

I’m unvaccinated, but work at home, have no friends, no visitors, work with food so constantly washing and sanitising my hands and actually enjoyed lockdown last year as it was so peaceful. My kids haven’t had it and neither has their dad, despite several cases at their school/work.

While I wouldn’t mind being locked down again, I haven’t ever had covid and haven’t been in contact with anyone else who has, in the whole time it’s been a thing (I hadn’t seen DP within the previous 5 days when he caught it). DP has not only had it, but his DCs, his ex, his brother and several colleagues have also had it.

I fail to see how keeping me locked in while he’s not would have any effect whatsoever given that I’ve done a good job of keeping myself and my family covid free.

Now a lockdown for people who’ve forgotten to wash their hands since Boris stopped telling them to, that I’d support.

No lockdown for anybody.

This

@OverTheRubicon it reduces severity, yes, but protection against infection wanes much quicker.

“ Estimated BNT162b2 effectiveness against any SARS-CoV-2 infection was negligible in the first 2 weeks after the first dose. It increased to 36.8% (95% confidence interval [CI], 33.2 to 40.2) in the third week after the first dose and reached its peak at 77.5% (95% CI, 76.4 to 78.6) in the first month after the second dose. Effectiveness declined gradually thereafter, with the decline accelerating after the fourth month to reach approximately 20% in months 5 through 7 after the second dose. Effectiveness against symptomatic infection was higher than effectiveness against asymptomatic infection but waned similarly. Variant-specific effectiveness waned in the same pattern. Effectiveness against any severe, critical, or fatal case of Covid-19 increased rapidly to 66.1% (95% CI, 56.8 to 73.5) by the third week after the first dose and reached 96% or higher in the first 2 months after the second dose; effectiveness persisted at approximately this level for 6 months.”

www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114

Other studies have shown similar

@tigger1001 but would they have gone to Murrayfield without having the vaccine passport and risk being turned away at the gates? I doubt it, so the scheme IS making a difference,

Oh and DP likes to wear his mask under his nose or hanging off his ear etc and has vowed to get an exemption lanyard if it comes to it.

There’s definitely a feeling that he can’t catch or spread it now - even through logically he knows that’s not true.

@bumbleymummy
This is a summary of how the 20 x lower transmission risk figure was reached
medicalxpress.com/news/2021-10-unvaccinated-friend-roughly-covid.html

It looks like the data comes from Australia. I'm not sure you would see the same reduction in the UK because a lot of unvaccinated people will already have had covid. Latest estimate I saw was that around 50% of adults have had covid now and having had covid recently will also make you less likely to have it again and to transmit it. In Australia, most people will not have been exposed to covid before.

The article claims that unvaccinated people are 10 x more likely to have covid. UK data doesn't really bear that out. Imperial college data suggests that in the UK vaccinated people are 3 x less likely to be infected. See www.gov.uk/government/news/react-study-shows-fully-vaccinated-are-three-times-less-likely-to-be-infected.

So there is likely a significant difference in transmission between vaccinated and unvaccinated but it seems unlikely that it is anything close to 20 x in the UK.

There was a separate study showing that infected vaccinated people are just as likely to infect others in their household as unvaccinated. See report in Guardian here www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/covid-vaccinated-likely-unjabbed-infect-cohabiters-study-suggests. That may be due to length of contact.

Thanks Chessie :)

@RaisedByPangolins May I ask why you’re not vaccinated? Genuinely curious.

Well @PrincessNutNuts If you want to build resentment towards the NHS yet another lockdown would be the way to go.

@Flyonawalk
It is precisely because previous generations suffered so appallingly that we should defend the freedoms they won

There weren't any freedoms won in World War One.

I don't want to see another lockdown but I'd be fine with vaccine passports and the wearing of masks being enforced in public places.

I completely accept that people should be able to choose for themselves whether or not to have the vaccine. I'm also a little concerned about the as yet unknown long term effects of a very new process but I've had both mine and booked my booster because I think it's important for the health of the whole world that we halt the spread of this virus. It really pisses me off that people who are choosing not to have it can enjoy exactly the same freedoms as I do without any element of personal sacrifice.

Headline in the DF says unvaccinated in Austria banned from leaving home, then goes on to say that they can go to work and shopping and how are they going to know if they go to the park and places like that. That's the only sort of going out that many people do anyway, work, school and shopping

No to lockdown for either but a recommendation for unvaccinated to stay home if numbers in their area get high, and a reintroduction of social distancing and mandatory mask-wearing. Also limits on numbers in any one place.

@Practicebeingpatient so you want to punish people who have made a different decision to you? And, fwiw, the vaccine is much better at protecting the individual who had it from serious illness than it is at preventing infection and transmission to others. Do it’s great that you decided to have the vaccine to protect yourself but other people have decided differently and yes, they deserve the same freedoms as you - because they’re people.

Neither
You would need to have a pretty sick and twisted mind to want discrimination by having a lockdown just for those who have not had the injections.

A lot of the European countries have never been not able to see family in their own home like in England. I guess in Austria relatives are still able to go inside the unvaccinateds houses