Austria unvaccinated lockdown

[MRex]

How is this expected to actually work in practice? I have only seen basic UK news articles, interested mostly to understand the practical implications.

Personal views without knowing detail: I simply don't see any way this can be achieved without infringing on personal freedoms of unvaccinated and vaccinated quite significantly. I'm very pro-vax in general and for covid, but I hope the UK doesn't start anything like this, seems like it would just have anyone digging their heels in and cause a lot of social unrest issues.

You could have corrected her on the idea that infection after vaccination isn’t a risk. You didn’t though. You decided to focus on what I’d written instead and made out that what I was saying about vaccinated people still being a risk to others wasn’t correct. Really helpful considering that you just recognised that it’s scientific fact

So if I'm severely immunocompromised and vaccines don't work for me, is it essentially just 'tough shit?'. It's impossible to avoid covid as family need to work (I resigned because of risk) and kids need school). I also need more immunosuppressant infusions (chemo) this winter. I'm fit and well because of my treatment, usually live a normal, sociable, active life. Now I just see people for walks, or coffee outside-not ideal now it's cold and wet!!

I fear that if covid is not mitigated over winter (ventilation, testing, masks) the NHS will be unable to offer timely care and many more will die from non-covid illness. This is happening already and guaranteed to be worse with winter pressures.

Are people not worried about getting heart attack/stroke/ appendicitis treatment when you or your loved ones?

I'm not pro lockdowns at all, they happen as a failure of other mitigations. I'm glad my family and friends can socialise now.

Are people not worried about getting heart attack/stroke/ appendicitis treatment when you or your loved ones?

I'm not sure if this has affected my thinking but I grew up somewhere with very poor medical facilities so if there was an emergency with not enough time to cross the border and travel for three hours, otlr you didn't have the money, then thats just how it was.
So not much point worrying about it.

Haven't read the whole thread, but from my German friend I was shocked to hear that her nephew is unable to attend lectures at his university due to him not being vaxxed. PP's are right that we rarely hear about these restrictions unless you have friends or family abroad. University here for my DD is completely back to normal, the only requirement being masks in lectures, no other rules or mandates, or requirements.

@ EcoutezSVP

"Are people not worried about getting heart attack/stroke/ appendicitis treatment when you or your loved ones?"

Thank you. Yes. Very concerned - particularly for my children actually. Here in Scotland children's services are limited at the best of times and hospitals are regulaly pushed to breaking point during 'normal' winters. We are being warned to expect worse this year. It won't take much for the services to become completely overwhelmed. If DC needs, for example, appendix surgery or a broken bone put back together it might mean delayed treatment or a transefer to England. People seem quite relaxed about this prospect.

Its such a strange phenomenon that people who will be triple vaxed soon are scared to death of people that have not had the vax. Yet are not bothered about catching it off some one who is also triple vaxxed - as we know they can still be contagious.

This is bewildering.

@containsnuts the strain on children’s services is coming from increased rsv/flu cases this year.

I'm really disappointed that the anti-vax are trying to disrupt this thread. Research is clear, anyone vaccinated is less likely to catch and less likely to pass on infection. Hyperbole about "scared to death" is tedious nonsense.

What I wanted to discuss was HOW this would be enforced; because it's an entirely new idea to split society in these categories. I happen to think it's a terrible idea, however much sympathy I have with wanting to increase vaccination rates, but that isn't the point because I'm not Austrian so I don't get to decide what works for their country. My interest was in what actual mechanisms would be used to verify who fits in which category. Can people please focus on the topic and set up your own thread for other discussions, thanks.

I'm really disappointed that the anti-vax are trying to disrupt this thread. Research is clear, anyone vaccinated is less likely to catch and less likely to pass on infection. Hyperbole about "scared to death" is tedious nonsense

Totally agree

[quote bumbleymummy]@containsnuts the strain on children’s services is coming from increased rsv/flu cases this year.[/quote]
Seems unlikely given the RespiratoryMart Data.

RSV positivity is roughly where it was in the same week in 2019 but falling and flu is virtually non-existent (thank goodness).

Given that the lastest I saw from the CDC was that children were more likely to be hospitalised if they caught covid than if they caught flu, the astronomical covid rate in children and extremely low levels of flu in the U.K., something very odd would have to be going on for flu to be causing pressure from child hospitalisations.

@EileenGC

I don’t specifically know about Austria, but in Germany over 12s need to follow the same rules as adults because the vaccine has been available for almost 6 months now, and upon recommendation from medical experts, all over 12s have had access to 2 doses too.

There are many threads about Mumsnetters who want to take their teens on holiday/to see family in Europe and can’t, because the UK has only given them one dose.

If you’re over 12 and don’t have 2 doses (or another type of Covid pass), you’re unvaccinated.

Hi Eileeen, whether under 18s need to follow the same rules as adults or not in Germany seems to depend on the Bundesland / federal state. In Hesse, which has now gone over to 3G+, unvaccinated adults have to show a PCR test to go to public indoor spaces, while under-18s and the medically exempt 'just' need to produce a valid Schnelltest/LFT (and most under-18s get tested regularly at school in any case). Berlin has just gone over to 2G, and I do think under-12s are exempt from that - I'd have to check the specific rules though. It makes sense for the different Bundesländer to have different requirements though, given the difference in rates between Meck-Pom and Saxony.

It sounds like government is backing down - stopping all Covid measures next year anyway - according to the Daily Mail glimpsed at through Twitter!

So hopefully the U.K. won’t need to worry about this sort of nonsense anyway.

@Pippi1970

I'm really disappointed that the anti-vax are trying to disrupt this thread. Research is clear, anyone vaccinated is less likely to catch and less likely to pass on infection. Hyperbole about "scared to death" is tedious nonsense

Totally agree

Is that you Pippa?

The number of your so called anti vaxxers are increasing and will continue to do so as time goes on.

They are of course just independent thinkers. Alert to what’s going on. Most not anti vax at all.

I wish your mum well.

[quote bumbleymummy]@containsnuts the strain on children’s services is coming from increased rsv/flu cases this year.[/quote]
Yes but with the additional burden of covid this year - extra admissions and staff absences. My point was that the situation is already so fragile that it won't take much to tip the balance. It doesn't need to be thousands of extra admissions. One extra person in ICU or an absent anaesthetist means someone else can't have their surgery.

@MRex

I'm really disappointed that the anti-vax are trying to disrupt this thread. Research is clear, anyone vaccinated is less likely to catch and less likely to pass on infection. Hyperbole about "scared to death" is tedious nonsense.

What I wanted to discuss was HOW this would be enforced; because it's an entirely new idea to split society in these categories. I happen to think it's a terrible idea, however much sympathy I have with wanting to increase vaccination rates, but that isn't the point because I'm not Austrian so I don't get to decide what works for their country. My interest was in what actual mechanisms would be used to verify who fits in which category. Can people please focus on the topic and set up your own thread for other discussions, thanks.

I am certainly not anti vax - and I find it offensive tbh that people fling that word about as as a slur it implies that I dont believe in any vaccinations. I am the biggest advocate in children's flu vaccinations as the uptake is actually really poor and flu is really dangerous to children. ( plus very pro childhood vaccinations)

You should actually use the term - anti covid vax but then again - I have had both my covid jabs, so that term still doesn't apply to me.

You can start any thread you like about you like but if you start a thread about how you apply restrictions to those that dont have the vaccine you will always have people gravitating to it that say 'hang on, I dont agree that restrictions should even be applied'

I am pro choice with out restrictions. As every one should be. When you advocate a society that easily puts restrictions on peoples lives because of their own body autonomy - you are taking your own body autonomy too.

There may come a day when you dont feel you need the next new vaccine but the governments already know how compliant the people and how easily they turn on dissenters and force it any way. Then will you look back and say 'ah I get it now?'

@containsnuts well its about to get a whole lot worse as 60,000 care home staff have just been fired.

Also this year will certainly not be as bad as last year because of the vaccines.

Are you in the US rafal? In the U.K. we had an unexpected surge of rsv over the summer and into the autumn.

Iirc hospitalisations in under 5s are higher for rsv/flu than they have been for coronavirus. I linked to a report on it a few months ago.

@MauraandLaura - you literally quoted me saying "I happen to think it's a terrible idea" and go on to criticise that I am supposedly pro restrictions, please read before commenting.

@bumbleymummy

Are you in the US rafal? In the U.K. we had an unexpected surge of rsv over the summer and into the autumn.

Iirc hospitalisations in under 5s are higher for rsv/flu than they have been for coronavirus. I linked to a report on it a few months ago.

That was true of RSV, but it's mostly burned out now, and lucky too as it needed to be done before winter.

Posted too soon. I meant to tweak that to say "the cases missed last year needed to be gone through before winter".

Also this weekly report explains case levels; see page 60 or so, cases of RSV were much higher than normal (those who would normally have caught it last year) and are now down to normal levels for the time of year: www.gov.uk/government/statistics/national-flu-and-covid-19-surveillance-reports-2021-to-2022-season

Yes, I know that the unseasonal surge was because of restrictions last year. But usually hospitalisations in young children for rsv/flu are higher than what we’ve seen for coronavirus. Thankfully they don’t seem to become as ill with COVID.

[quote MRex]@MauraandLaura - you literally quoted me saying "I happen to think it's a terrible idea" and go on to criticise that I am supposedly pro restrictions, please read before commenting.[/quote]
It still stands what I said. Your flinging about 'anti vaxxers derailing the thread' I am pointing out I am not an antivaxxer and its offensive.

No I’m in the UK. We did have some unseasonal RSV, but right now the RSV levels are where you’d expect them to be, with the exception of the fact that they are currently falling rather than rising. The typical peak for RSV is in December.

U.K. flu levels are very low still. Lower than normal for this time of year even in a ‘good’ flu year. So what I’d expect to see right now is hospitals in a slightly better position than normal. Whatever is causing the pressure in children’s services, it almost certainly isn’t a combination of RSV and flu.

I think the point is that we have an extra disease to accommodate this year. Many people feel this requires measures that were not previously necessary to help manage the situation. To return to the original question, I'm not sure that locking down unvaccinated people is the answer. I'm more in favour of masks and testing and also improved ventilation in public places. This would benefit us all and would help reduce other infections such as flu.