Infecting children to protect adults - yay or nay?

[PrincessNutNuts]

"There is an argument for allowing the virus to circulate amongst children
which could provide broader immunity to the children and boost immunity in
adults.”

From the JCVI minutes.

What about you?

Are you in favour of a policy of infecting children to protect adults?

Ok with children suffering illness, going to hospital and dying to protect adults?

Yay or nay?

Fully support this. Dd (13)won't be having her vax. Since when did we vax children from a virus that barely affects them to protect adults. Especially as we have no data on long term effects of the vax.

Vaccines work so adults will be fine.

“ Since when did we vax children from a virus that barely affects them to protect adults.”

We do this with the flu vaccine.

@theemperorhasnoclothes

We should be clear that the government policy is very clearly to infect children - state school children at least. And that parent's have no choice.

Also that it's a fact, proven during this pandemic in Manaus Brazil, that herd immunity does not work. High infection rates are much more likely to lead to vaccine evading variants than herd immunity.

Parents have NO CHOICE if they want their kids to be educated. They have to send them into schools which are operating in a way to maximise covid exposure and viral dose (higher viral dose = more severe disease).

I have had to send my daughter in this morning. I have begged her to wear a mask but she 'doesn't want to stand out as no-one will talk to me' and 'the teachers aren't which means it's not allowed'. Also 'all the disabled kids are wearing masks and it makes it even harder for them to fit in'. So all this faux concern for vulnerable kids during the lockdowns has well and truly evaporated.

Why is the answer to expect a shy 11 year old to be braver than the adults responsible for them?

I am so angry at the government and I'm angry at the SLT in my daughter's school too. Their values include 'kindness' and 'integrity' but they're throwing CEV families under the bus which is the opposite of both these things. Parents have overwhelmingly said they want masks, and yet they resist.

I know the DfE is telling them not to mask or to encourage isolation of family contacts but all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people do do nothing.

Deliberate infection of a whole generation with a novel virus that can have serious, lifelong consequences, without taking the most minor completely non-invasive methods to prevent disease (ventilation) is evil.

I agree. I’m so angry that I’ve written to my MP so many times. She gave me some bullshit response about being a mother too but didn’t answer why this approach is acceptable. (Conservative, obviously).

I am so angry I need to do more but not sure what else.

Nay

Not RTWFT but think this whole thread is a misunderstanding. The JCVI meant that children being infected with covid would protect them when they became adults themselves (they would build up a broad immunity over time), not that it would protect current adults!

@Iggly - the best thing you can do is review who came second in your constituency and go and campaign for them. Even if you can't win you can make that MP work for their place.

If you are in a ridiculously safe seat then pick a neighbouring seat where you can make a difference.

There is nothing more cathartic than taking part in a campaign where an absolute shit gets beaten

Letters to the local paper also annoy MPs although they have limited actual impact

@CiderWithLizzie

Not RTWFT but think this whole thread is a misunderstanding. The JCVI meant that children being infected with covid would protect them when they became adults themselves (they would build up a broad immunity over time), not that it would protect current adults!

That is quite clearly not what they were saying. See the highlighted point. Especially when read in context of the point above.

@CiderWithLizzie

Not RTWFT but think this whole thread is a misunderstanding. The JCVI meant that children being infected with covid would protect them when they became adults themselves (they would build up a broad immunity over time), not that it would protect current adults!

No, that is absolutely not what they meant - and how would immunity that lasts only a short time help in adulthood anyway ? And why would you choose higher risk and lower effect natural immunity over vaccine immunity ?

I've seen some people online say similar about its to provide those same kids with immunity when an adult. Think it started with Alisdair Munro (surprise surprise). To come to that conclusion from the words written is as much of a reach as Dominic Cummings testing his eyesight.

It takes quite something to defend the JCVI in this. Unless you're one of those responsible or terribly deep in denial.

Try talking to families with kids in secondary school before you defend the JCVI at least. Or read some of the truly heartbreaking threads on here right now about kids who have been and are incredibly poorly with covid.

What are they doing to put in place support for all the kids very ill as a result of their pontification? Nothing. That's right. On top of very poorly kids most parents have got to fight really hard to get proper treatment - what about the kids who don't have parents well enough to do that?

@lonelyplanet they all seem quite reasonable arguments to me. Clearly, the point mentioned in the op was just one of many being considered.

Prof Colin Davis on twitter "Hard to know whether those rushing to defend JCVI's "allow virus to circulate among children to boost immunity in adults" strategy are in denial or just trolling when they claim the adults being referred to are present-day children in the future."

But kids are either going to have to get this Covid virus or be vaccinated regularly against it or school as we have known it for decades cannot continue in its current form - which would have a profound impact on society/community/social skills.
So it is a question of whose gets to decide about children - government or parents. It is a liberal society we live in based on choice so government should offer the choice of vaccine and or natural infection. They are having the exact same debate in every country. Luckily for us here it is actually better because the vast majority of adults have decided to have the vaccine so kids/their parents should actually get a choice rather than kids literally having to be vaccinated to protect adults who refuse to be vaccinated

government should offer the choice of vaccine and or natural infection

Lots of kids infected because they weren’t offered the choice of vaccination for months after the MHRA approved it, while the JCVI discussed the benefits to adults of kids being infected with covid and dragged their heels.

@noblegiraffe

Prof Colin Davis on twitter "Hard to know whether those rushing to defend JCVI's "allow virus to circulate among children to boost immunity in adults" strategy are in denial or just trolling when they claim the adults being referred to are present-day children in the future."

There must be some sort of scoreboard to for who can get the most people to repeat stone cold bullshit.

@noblegiraffe - OK there was a delay but now every 12-15 should have been sent a leaflet and can book. Local vaccination teams have been overwhelmed and surely you would agree that boosters for the elderly and vulnerable are more important for society as a whole?
So the focus needs to shift now onto government actually looking into vaccines for 5-11 year olds as other countries like France, Israel, Switzerland are currently doing. So there is a choice. No point going on about delays for ages 12-15 who can now book online.

@Incognito22333

But kids are either going to have to get this Covid virus or be vaccinated regularly against it or school as we have known it for decades cannot continue in its current form - which would have a profound impact on society/community/social skills. So it is a question of whose gets to decide about children - government or parents. It is a liberal society we live in based on choice so government should offer the choice of vaccine and or natural infection. They are having the exact same debate in every country. Luckily for us here it is actually better because the vast majority of adults have decided to have the vaccine so kids/their parents should actually get a choice rather than kids literally having to be vaccinated to protect adults who refuse to be vaccinated

Is that yay or nay on a policy of children being infected to protect adults?

[quote Incognito22333]@noblegiraffe - OK there was a delay but now every 12-15 should have been sent a leaflet and can book. Local vaccination teams have been overwhelmed and surely you would agree that boosters for the elderly and vulnerable are more important for society as a whole?
So the focus needs to shift now onto government actually looking into vaccines for 5-11 year olds as other countries like France, Israel, Switzerland are currently doing. So there is a choice. No point going on about delays for ages 12-15 who can now book online.[/quote]
No, actually, I think the focus should be on whether the policy makers in this country are routinely risking our children's health unnecessarily to further their own unscientific agenda.

I hope the families of the many, many children who've got long covid as a result of this sue. As well as the families of those children who've died completely unnecessarily.

The delay matters, a policy to deliberately infect children matters. It's not enough to say 'oh they can have the vaccine now'. It takes between 2-3 weeks to get full immunity from the vaccine - how many kids will fall ill in that time? In schools with absolutely no protections for kids at all?

In countries where they have protections like ventilation and air filtration they have had fewer kids sick.

Why are our children alone subject to this horrifying experiment?

So how do you all feel about children being exposed to chicken pox which has been know to kill children or leave them with severe issues long term to protect adults .... there is a chicken pox vaccine which has been used for many years in other countries but is not available to most children on the NHS because of cost reasons.

Well actually my son got shingles last year after having Covid (he had chicken pox as a one year old). It was very painful for him. My elder two had chicken pox naturally and it was so annoying I had my younger two vaccinated privately, at my own cost.
I am not sure chicken pox is milder than Covid for the vast majority of children. Chickenpox is pretty unpleasant. The only argument I ever saw that seemed to make sense for chicken pox was for girls having naturally might give more of a lifelong immunity than a vaccine, in case they catch chickenpox wildly during pregnancy if the vaccine had “expired”.

m fine with it as far as my own child goes. He's had it anyway. He's not going to die or end up in hospital. I can't speak for anyone else's child

So who told you covid can’t attack twice? Who told you it does not kill kids?
I know people who have had it and have had it again!
Ridiculous statement.

Our children are not alone in being exposed to Covid. France/Germany etc bit more careful with masks but their cases are also rising now. It is the inherent nature of schools - yes you can invest lots of money/masks/ventilation etc but you cannot eliminate the risk completely. If community rates rise so do rates in schools and vice versa.
It is still possible that 3 doses of the vaccine give longer term immunity but it has not been proven yet. Nobody really knows. Plus the current Pfizer was made based on original Covid rather than Delta Plus. Even in Israel only just over 50 per cent of 12-15 year olds have had the vaccine. Some people are worried about their children catching it naturally and others are worried about the vaccine. There are just as many teachers/parents complaining about no masks as there are those who really want masks. So choice for all is the best compromise.

Choice for all? That's not how society works.

Shall we all choose how fast to drive too? Or whether to bother stopping at a red light? With covid, as with road safety, your 'choice' affects other people and in many cases takes away their choice. As the current policies in schools have for many clinically vulnerable kids.