Scrapping the 10 days isolation would be the best and easiest way to support schools...

[Warhertisuff]

The disruption this causes is considerable, and massively outweigh the benefits. I'm not really sure what the benefits are actually!

Of course. If you're too ill to be at school for ten days as a pupil or teacher that's fine, but the vast majority would be back within a few days if they even needed to be off at all! We must be losing 10s if not 100s of 1,000s days of schools unnecessarily, whilst not really preventing much infection ultimately (virtually all children will be exposed to it some time this year)

@Iwantthesummersun

How does this support schools? It might make life easier for working parents but it doesn’t help schools in any shape or form.

Bingo! The dirty little truth about the government desperately wanting to avoid "disruption to education" had absolutely nothing to do with the pupils themselves, but rather ensuring working parents would no longer need to take time off to educate their little dears at home.

I won't speak for everyone, but even without having had Covid, this past halfterm has been far from ideal for my secondary aged son, continuously disrupted by absences among friends, multiple PCR tests, a steady rotation of supply teachers, cancelled special events--all because this government has done bugger all to ensure that their learning environments are protected.

@Warhertisuff thanks. That only gives an overall number of infected children. So you worked it out as a proportion from numbers of 5-14-year-olds living in England and Wales?

[quote julieca]@Warhertisuff thanks. That only gives an overall number of infected children. So you worked it out as a proportion from numbers of 5-14-year-olds living in England and Wales?[/quote]
I saw the 76% figure for 5-14yos. It was under the "attack rate" data.

I do agree that 76% seems high, but that is what the data said.

2 more children died from covid today which makes 98 kids deaths within the UK since pandemic started.

You can catch covid more than once eldest freinds have each time they been off 10 days and poorly and they now crucial year 11 exam year and the school vaccinate team never visited.

Thanks.
Just to add it is not what the data says. It is an interpretation of various data including flu transmission studies.
Just want to be clear about this.
Whitty is saying just over half infected. I don't know what data sources he is using.
I would want to see peer review of this 76% figure first. I do know other predictions that have taken into account flu transmission studies, have overestimated infection rates.
I have no idea if that is the case here or not.
But this is a hypothesis, it is not data.

@Echo40

2 more children died from covid today which makes 98 kids deaths within the UK since pandemic started.

You can catch covid more than once eldest freinds have each time they been off 10 days and poorly and they now crucial year 11 exam year and the school vaccinate team never visited.

That's very sad about the two children who died. Statistically, it is very rare, but it's utterly heartbreaking for their families.

@julieca

Thanks. Just to add it is not what the data says. It is an interpretation of various data including flu transmission studies. Just want to be clear about this. Whitty is saying just over half infected. I don't know what data sources he is using. I would want to see peer review of this 76% figure first. I do know other predictions that have taken into account flu transmission studies, have overestimated infection rates. I have no idea if that is the case here or not. But this is a hypothesis, it is not data.

Fair enough, I don't claim to be an expert.

76% instinctively feels high to me. However, I am very willing to believe that, whatever the percentage was 6 weeks ago, it must be a heck of a lot higher now. Covid seems to be everywhere at the moment. And according to the stats, my area certainly isn't one of the worst affected.

My partner is a teacher and tested positive today along with 3 other teachers. I work in health care so now I can't go to work for 10 days and it's most likely my 2 Yr has it as he has got a temp now.
Teachers are not expendable, letting all children still go to school with covid is madness.
A different tactics should be lateral flows every day before being let into school, extreme of course but there are other options.

@AlexaShutUp it may be accurate. I am not saying it isn't. I am also saying you can't say from the information given if it is accurate.

Certainly, the infection rate amongst children is high. But even if we look at Whittys calculation of over half of children, and this calculation of 76% and split the difference? So if we say twp thirds of children have been infected by covid at some point?

That seems high, but the pandemic has been going on for at least a year and 9 months. That seems to me to be quite a long time to infect two-thirds of our children. And now people are getting reinfected including children.

Children pass on infections to school staff who end up being off ill. We have already had two years of exams disrupted. I want an actual plan to stop the disruption from happening again. Not simply let covid run through schools infecting the remaining one-third of children, reinfecting some children already infected, and infecting school staff. That will lead to class and possibly school closures even if they do get rid of the isolation period.

I currently have covid and am double jabbed. I got it at a gathering where four of us, all double jabbed, got covid. Three of us have been too ill to work. Vaccines are designed to reduce deaths, not to stop people getting ill enough to stay at home.

But I suspect this is the government plan. And another winter in which children are going to have a very disrupted education.

Oh, I completely agree with you @julieca, we need to do more to reduce transmission. Particularly in schools but more generally too.

I also got covid after being double jabbed, after my single jabbed dd brought it home from school. We were both poorly, though not as bad as many other people I know of who had also been double jabbed. This is not a disease I take lightly at all.

Sadly, the government's only real plan at the moment seems to be to bury our heads in the sand and hope that it might go away.

Scotland did see high disruption that seems to have lowered a lot, and this could be transmission passing through schools (masks wouldn’t cause that drop)

On infection, Ds and his friends got Covid post vaccination so I’m not sure it will halt it that much I’m age range. I did see a figure of stopping 30k infections, which seems low.

@MarshaBradyo

Scotland did see high disruption that seems to have lowered a lot, and this could be transmission passing through schools (masks wouldn’t cause that drop)

On infection, Ds and his friends got Covid post vaccination so I’m not sure it will halt it that much I’m age range. I did see a figure of stopping 30k infections, which seems low.

Yes, dd and her friends also got covid after a single jab. I gather that one jab isn't that effective against delta? Mind you, I caught it after two doses, so that obviously didn't prevent me from getting it either, though I do believe it probably made the symptoms less severe.

With regard to Scotland, I wonder if the mask wearing also has a wider impact on psychology and behaviour. I know a couple of people who have visited England recently from Scotland/Ireland and they both expressed shock at how relaxed things seemed compared to what they were seeing back at home. Maybe the masks remind people to be careful even if they themselves don't actually make that much difference to transmission?

This is particularly stupid Suggestion

The testing scandal of 43k incorrect negative r sults has illustrated quite well what what happens to cases ( and eventually hospitalisations and deaths) when people don't isolate when they have covid.

You would like the most infected age group on the country to do exactly that. The ons said school staff are already one of the most likely demographic to be infected as of the start of October. Plenty are already off Ill. It's not uncommon for fully vaxxed staff to be I'll for 2 to 3 weeks and many many supply staff fell through the cracks of the pandemic support so there is a limited pool to help keep schools open and budgets to pay them.

Why have the threads been so spectacularly senseless in the last few days? So lacking in empathy for others? What is going on?

@Dishhh

Why have the threads been so spectacularly senseless in the last few days? So lacking in empathy for others? What is going on?

Because we are in the bit of the cycle where it is obvious to most that continuing to ignore covid isn't working, and that makes the anti-public health people a bit wild.

I love these Tory posts schools were not working self isolating the whole class last term as so many children were off isolating.
This term the numbers finished even higher that’s because the kids had Covid were k no it just self isolating. What the government did made no difference to attendance. Actually for my my daughter has caught her 4th illness in 6 weeks non Covid but she is so poorly she has needed time off! It’s not working. But instead of put restriction in the government will be thinking about stopping the 10 day isolation for kids.
Just like they keep going on about vaccinations where wearing a mask may of helped 🤨.

Because we are in the bit of the cycle where it is obvious to most that continuing to ignore covid isn't working, and that makes the anti-public health people a bit wild.

So true @rrhuth.

[quote Treblebass]@julieca

I’m sure not ALL the staff will get Ill at the same time, but I’m 99 percent certain that every staff member who does get it is really REALLY ill with it. They want two weeks off from the shit show that is education. I can’t really say I blame them I would do exactly the same.

Meanwhile in the real world people aren’t getting REALLY ill from covid after a double vaccination.[/quote]
This is such a sad post. I'm a teacher and I and most of my colleagues hate taking time off, we don't take it off as we 'want two weeks off'.

As an ill teacher (unless I physically can't) I have to send in cover work, the work the kids have done whilst I'm away will need marking, and their routines have gone to pot. It's really quite a hassle taking time off. I'm not sure

Also we might not get excessively sick all at the same time, but it's likely enough would to trigger school closures - either partial or full. I work in a large secondary - if 20 teachers were off out of 200 that's a logistical nightmare to find someone to cover those lessons. And let's not forget people may be off with non covid illness

Let's also not forget that many teachers are parents - even if my child needed a day or two off school thats a day or two I cannot teach. Times that by the thousands of parents who are teachers. Letting it rip through schools even more isn't the solution, as the OP has now acknowledged.

With regard to Scotland, I wonder if the mask wearing also has a wider impact on psychology and behaviour. I know a couple of people who have visited England recently from Scotland/Ireland and they both expressed shock at how relaxed things seemed compared to what they were seeing back at home. Maybe the masks remind people to be careful even if they themselves don't actually make that much difference to transmission?

I agree. There may not be much risk in a well ventilated supermarket, but masks and other stuff like one-way systems are a constant and visible reminder to be vigilant and that there's still a pandemic about! The thing is people can start to rebel against that after a while, realising they're being psychologically manipulated.

@noblegiraffe

This just happened in the South West didn't it? People with covid weren't isolating because they were incorrectly told that they didn't have covid.

And now rates there are sky high. Lots more kids missing school than they would have done because they've got covid from a classmate who should have been isolating.

The numbers really have gone absolutely insane!

I can't agree with op. But, It all depends where you are. In some areas it's rife. Practically nothing here, in Surrey, in any of the local schools, a few cases, not that many. I only know 2 people who have had it this year, they were totally fine, not unwell, asymptomatic. None of ds's friends have had it at all.

@Oblomov21

I can't agree with op. But, It all depends where you are. In some areas it's rife. Practically nothing here, in Surrey, in any of the local schools, a few cases, not that many. I only know 2 people who have had it this year, they were totally fine, not unwell, asymptomatic. None of ds's friends have had it at all.

I'm in Surrey and our local schools are rife! In my DC's school just last week there were over 10 cases in each class. This went from zero to 10 positive cases within 48 hours in each class. It sprang out of nowhere.

I appreciate Surrey is a large county but it won't take long! given so many kids mix at after school clubs and weekend sports etc.

Have the rules changed? It felt like months ago most kids were off, for 10 days unnecessarily, not ill, because of being named a close contact. Most of them didn't need to be off, didn't have covid.

But now if you are named a close contact, invariably you do end up showing signs and then getting it.

[quote Treblebass]@julieca

I’m sure not ALL the staff will get Ill at the same time, but I’m 99 percent certain that every staff member who does get it is really REALLY ill with it. They want two weeks off from the shit show that is education. I can’t really say I blame them I would do exactly the same.

Meanwhile in the real world people aren’t getting REALLY ill from covid after a double vaccination.[/quote]
So let's be really clear here.
You are suggesting that teachers are lying about the severity of their Covid infection, just so they can get (even) more times off from work?
Whereas people in "the real world" (you know, those who've been largely working from home the last 20 months and trying to perpetuate the myth that Covid doesn't spread in schools) "do the decent thing" at all times and take the bare minimum?