How many of you will comply?

[LifesTooShortYOLO]

I am interested to know if people will comply or not if they bring in Restrictions again about not mixing households, not seeing family or lockdowns etc again.
So many people I've spoken to are pretty much all of the same mindset of 'Fu#k that I'm not not seeing my family again, enough is enough and we have to get on with our lives now'
I also read this a lot on comments of articles where people are saying no they won't do it again and not see their loved ones or be told what to do over Christmas etc.

What are everyone's overall feelings as things stand right now?

Ugh,

Christmas Shmissmass.

The toddler-like obsession with Christmas is crazy unless you are actually Christian.

You can do a special meal any day of the year and have family around.

It is our media-led consumerist obsession with Christmas that caused us so much trouble last year. It was not the government’s fault that, in the weeks preceding it, people thought that COVID had gone to Lapland, and that squeezing into shops and restaurants was a fab idea.

* Maybe it will become a lovely Christmas tradition when we all switch on our TVs at 5pm a few days before Christmas to find out if we are allowed out of our houses or not*

Would not stop me or many others on this thread doing exactly what they wanted anyway

It would be like the queens speech.
We would never watch

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@Malteser71,

Restrictions were global, not just due to underfunded NHS.

If you get exponential growth for long enough, any health system is overwhelmed.

The reason we are talking about then again and most are not is that we have far more cases,

And that, in turn, is due to behaviour , not double vaxxing over 12s, and insufficient vaccine take up.[/quote]
One of my brothers lives in a South American State. I don't know the situation there now, but a couple of months ago there were many antivaxxers and the hospitals in his area were full of Covid patients. He was extremely worried because although he was vaccinated, he has other health problems which have meant he's sometimes had to go into hospital and he was worried there wouldn't be a bed for him if he needed one. The health services of many countries have struggled - but ours have had a particularly hard time of us as we have fewer doctors per million people than other Western countries because we haven't trained enough health workers. Short sighted and badly planned.

@wantanotherdog,

I agree with you that the NHS is not fit for purpose.

However, if you have twice the number of beds, doctors etc, if a virus has an r number of 2 and an incubation period of 5 days, it just gives you five days grace until you are overwhelmed.

Vaccinations and suppression are the only way to control COVID and allow life to go on pretty much normally (it will take years until it can be 100% normal again).

I’m married to an ICU consultant. By default, many of our friends are doctors.

They all anticipate a difficult winter, not because if huge covid cases, just other issues.

Are you prepared to reintroduce restrictions for that? Because the NHS is completely broken (I’m also nhs, 25 years service, it’s broken for lots of reasons). Are we honestly prepared to live under restrictions ‘to save the nhs’ forever?

Or do we just admit it’s broken and have a grown up conversation?

Or do we just admit it’s broken and have a grown up conversation?

Exactly.

@Malteser71,

What would the grown up conversation consist of?

It is especially irritating (to me) that many people wanting covid vaccines have either been turned away or are finding it difficult to access them (See: multiple threads, MN).

Not me, me and my kids have had enough and need to get back to normal. No masks, no restrictions.

* Because the NHS is completely broken *

I had an op in October last year. NHS. Absolutely superb world class surgeon
After care magnificent

My daughter was hospitalised for 9 days in a children’s ward. The care was nothing short of exceptional. Nothing to sign, not a penny paid.

My son had a very minor operation under local. The care was…. Superb.

My sister had an emergency birth. The week she spent afterwards - she cries when she recalls the care, the attention, the fact that the surgeons who operated on her baby were amongst the best in the world

Doesn’t seem broken to me

I don’t think the

FFS you can have a Harvard med school doc operating out the back of a MSF truck on the outskirts of Mogadishu.

Aye, world class surgeon maybe - but still a fucking truck on a back street.

Give me strength - are people really this unable to understand nuance?

My British friends mostly cry too when they recall their NHS maternity care…

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@Malteser71,

What would the grown up conversation consist of?[/quote]
Acknowledging the severity, complexity and pervasiveness of the (long term) issues within our health service, and discussing potential solutions to them; looking at other models from around the world that are functioning better. Accept that radical reforms are required- beyond more funding (which is also evidently necessary).

Or we lock ourselves in our houses and come out once a week to clap, and display rainbows and #ourheros slogans everywhere and shout insults at anyone who dares to criticise our sacrosanct Public Health Service.

It’s nice to hear your experience of using the NHS.

You must think people like me with 25 years service are imagining the state it’s in. If everyone had the same experience as you, you must be really confused when people say the NHS is in a bad way.

I have 1958 children on the waiting list that I’m responsible for. 2 year wait. Urgent? I can see you in three months. This is why we need a conversation. We either stop funding ridiculous non-jobs and manager positions or we start privatising it.

We certainly don’t restrict children’s right to education/liberties to ‘save’ a system where I honestly can’t tell you what value the five managers above me add to the NHS. The public would be horrified really if they saw how the system works

@Oftenithinkaboutit I'm so glad you had a wonderful experience, lucky you.

My eldest DDs maternity care was shocking. There barely was any. When she went into labour, there was no bed for her. Her experience in the maternity hospital is the stuff of nightmares and not my story to share. Her post natal care and the care of her newborn had been non existent. She hasn't even had a post natal check up after her traumatic birth.

My DM waited 5 weeks for a GP appointment during which time her condition deteriorated so badly that when she finally did get seen the recovery was twice as long as it should have been. How she wasn't hospitalised is anyone's guess.

I've been waiting for an ultrasound for 3 months now. If they find something heinous, my chances of survival will have dropped dramatically. I'm only early forties with small children and teens still to raise.

And everyone I speak to shares the same kinds of experiences.

@Malteser71,

I agreed with most of your last post, bar the last paragraph.

We do need far more investment in health, either via socialised model (where we are now) or privatisation, or somewhere in between (as exists in many European countries).

The NHS should also be patient centred, not self centred as it is now.

So, yes, that conversation needs to take place.

But..,

It has little to do with COVID management.

An epidemic like COVID will overwhelm ANY health system and lead to closures (as it did) unless people change behaviour and we either mandate or persuade almost universal vaccine uptake.

In the UK, we have far more cases than any similar nation (per capita). This has nothing to do with the NHS.

@Malteser71

It’s nice to hear your experience of using the NHS.

You must think people like me with 25 years service are imagining the state it’s in. If everyone had the same experience as you, you must be really confused when people say the NHS is in a bad way.

I have 1958 children on the waiting list that I’m responsible for. 2 year wait. Urgent? I can see you in three months. This is why we need a conversation. We either stop funding ridiculous non-jobs and manager positions or we start privatising it.

We certainly don’t restrict children’s right to education/liberties to ‘save’ a system where I honestly can’t tell you what value the five managers above me add to the NHS. The public would be horrified really if they saw how the system works

I do not think you are imagining it

But I do not agree that it is “broken”. It’s not my experience. Not my children’s. And not my family’s (or indeed my neighbour as she was telling me yesterday!).

So why would I think “broken” when that word directly contradicts my experience of jt?

You say you want an adult discussion.

That’s great.

But you don’t seem to want to hear any experience that contradicts your statement that it is broken.

Not a great start to an adult discussion, I have to say.

@TheReluctantPhoenix I happen to like Christmas. I live on a housing estate. I cant afford to go abroad. Its looking more and more that people like me have to keep making sacrifices like this to enable the better off to go on holiday. Dismissive attitudes that you have just shown dont help.

I don’t want an adult discussion on a parenting board. We need an adult due us soon at National level.

You have no idea how many staff are leaving/off sick. My secretary is on her third week of sickness absence due to overwork (too many referrals). In her absence, I am expected to do her job. In my absence, nobody is doing my job.

I am a highly paid clinician processing referrals and putting them into the computer rather than using my skills, knowing that I would be better off actually seeing the ones already on the list.

People ring and complain about the wait. This means i have to launch investigations into their case. This prevents me doing the admin job.

Nobody is doing my clinical job, remember.

My managers go to meetings.

Using sweeping statements such as “the nhs is broken”
When it directly contradicts many experiences (and indeed supports many)
Is simply no conducive to an adult or indeed any kind of discussion

@Oftenithinkaboutit I am no longer able to get an appointment at my gp except for emergencies. My toddler has various issues- some of which I have not yet been able to see a health professional for. When my baby is sick, my options seem to be, pay for private care, or go to A&E. to my mind that is a broken system. There is absolutely zero preventative care in the community these days.

The last meaningful interaction I personally had with the health service was during my last pregnancy/ birth. I was left to go almost 2 weeks overdue with undiagnosed preeclampsia, and my baby was injured by the hospital at birth , landing up on ventilation in intensive care. We both could have died. Again, my idea of a broken system.

[quote Bizawit]@Oftenithinkaboutit I am no longer able to get an appointment at my gp except for emergencies. My toddler has various issues- some of which I have not yet been able to see a health professional for. When my baby is sick, my options seem to be, pay for private care, or go to A&E. to my mind that is a broken system. There is absolutely zero preventative care in the community these days.

The last meaningful interaction I personally had with the health service was during my last pregnancy/ birth. I was left to go almost 2 weeks overdue with undiagnosed preeclampsia, and my baby was injured by the hospital at birth , landing up on ventilation in intensive care. We both could have died. Again, my idea of a broken system.[/quote]
Sounds awful
And I imagine many will share similar experiences

But it is not my experience. Or my children’s experience. Or others I know.

So my point is - to describe it as “broken” is incorrect and not helpful.

Often

What term would you prefer?

An adult conversation means listening to people. The clinicians that I know call it ‘broken.’ Including my consultant husband.

But over to you.

The problem is, you think your experience/opinion is equally valid to that of clinicians working on the inside of the system. They see things you don’t see. Know things you don’t know. As long as you believe it’s all fine and dandy, no need for a tax raise or honest discussion.

But surely the patients experience is important too!

All I was saying was that for a genuinely productive discussion, the basis shouldn’t be “it’s broken” as a statement of fact. When for some, their experience is very far from broken.

That is literally all I was saying. I saw “the nhs is broken” and thought “hmmm that doesn’t remotely align with my experience”. That’s not to say that others have not had awful experiences or that the medics have serious issues with the system.