BBC article on misinformation groups

[beentoldcomputersaysno]

The BBC has actually published an article on disinformation groups HART, UsforThem (obviously not named Government's links with them as it is the BBC). Wonder why they've timed this now?

www.bbc.com/news/health-58783711

@Lostinacloud

My comment is that the thread argument has evolved so I’ll put my comments wherever is appropriate olly.

Why?

You seem to be ignoring every poster factually pointing out the issues with HART et al and just continuing to promote them and their claims?

@noblegiraffe

I'm noticing the attempts to divert attention away from HART and their dubious offspring here.

In fairness to lost, I don't think s/he is trying to deflect as such (and I apologize for biting, I did promise myself to just use the "hide poster" button that those of us paid by the the MSM for our posts get, but I can't help it. I think s/he just has nothing pertinent to the Hart stuff to say.

@noblegiraffe

I'm noticing the attempts to divert attention away from HART and their dubious offspring here.

Indeed. But I'm finding this thread very informative about the behaviour of HART et al, despite the constant attempts to distract.

I might even say, because of the constant attempts to distract.

@Lostinacloud

I didn’t say anywhere france has done less but I did raise the point that it has been more freely able to spread there. Schools were not closed again after the first lockdown in March 2020 and pupils were not tested regularly causing whole classes to be continually closed down and thereby preventing spread once again. In fact for a large part of last year, it was only if more than 3 kids per class had tested positive that a class was closed so nothing like the U.K. where kids tested themselves twice per week and whole classes or year groups were closed due to one positive test. It’s makes a big difference to overall case numbers comparisons amongst school age kids over the course of a year when many french children were exposed to it months ago.

That's still not a real picture. France is controlling transmission in schools with vaccinations, masks, isolation of unvaccinated contacts. To say they have less cases now because of higher previous exposure is very unlikely. It is far more likely to be because of these measures.

BTW, on behalf of us lurkers, thank you to the many posters patiently providing fuller information and context.

I'm finding that much more helpful than the memes and cherry-picked half-figures.

Back to the OP as I see this has become somewhat derailed;

Do these groups stand to gain financially from. Spreading misinformation? If so, how?
If not, what is it precisely that they presume they are achieving and how does it benefit them?

@ZednotZee

Back to the OP as I see this has become somewhat derailed;

Do these groups stand to gain financially from. Spreading misinformation? If so, how?
If not, what is it precisely that they presume they are achieving and how does it benefit them?

It's a good question and one I ponder a lot.

That they are spreading misinformation is a fact, the reasons are lot more murky and require speculation.

The anti-vaccine community is established and long-standing - I've never really understood what they gain so maybe others can comment.

In regards to scientists/clinicians - there's several aspects to this. Some gain financially from promoting alternative treatments (see Sam White) or by promoting things like ivermectin (see FLCCC - who charge £200 for a consultation and then charge several times the cost price of the drug), or by having a large social media following (John Campbell). Others will be jumping on this by using the oppourtunity to get a highly publicised manscript, as controversial positive findings are more likely to be published than something null. Personally I'd be mortified by having a paper with my name on it retracted, but it seems to bother others less.

Did you change your mind about the vaccine Zed?
Or do you still believe the stuff you posted earlier this year?

@ollyollyoxenfree AS. don't waste your time. Not worth it.

@ollyollyoxenfree

Thanks for your answer.
I must admit that I hadn't heard of any of these groups prior to this thread so have had a quick Google just now.

I'm interested in unpicking the reason behind such misinformation and whilst it is interesting that there is apparently no consensus on the reasons for its proliferation, I think that fully understanding the motives of its most ardent proponents should be paramount if we are to stand a chance in prevailing over it.

The Koch Foundation in the US are funding covid-denial and are also heavily funding climate change denial.

I wonder if it benefits some powerful organisations to create distrust in science and ‘MSM’ in one area in the expectation that it will then transfer into other areas.

In the U.K. it is interesting to see the people in the media who are vocal on free speech, Brexit etc also coming together to promote U4T/Hart type narratives. Calvin Robinson of the Brexit Party recently criticised for promoting ivermectin on GBNews is a good example.

@noblegiraffe

Interesting theory regarding climate change denial.
I can see how that financially benefits a lot of people/industries.

How does covid misinformation link to Brexit though?

A mindset that looks to sunlit uplands in the face of evidence-based concerns. The idea that nobody should tell me what to do (EU, now covid restrictions). British exceptionalism. Had enough of experts.

It'd be really interesting if we had some data that linked political/ideological affiliation to the active speading of misinformation wouldn't it?

A previous poster mentioned byline times who have published several articles on these groups. If you search #Hartleaks on Twitter, there are loads of screenshots of conversations and analysis. It does seem to link in with climate change denial, funding wise. Often linked with selling treatment too, so mass infection works better than mitigation and vaccination as more people will be ill.
Another PP mentioned people parroting government/MSM lines. I'd beg to differ, certainly in the case of schools. It's very much been the line that kids don't get it, which moved onto don't get it badly, don't spread it, smear campaigns against teachers to bully them into unsafe environments etc. Often official line is 'we know a lot more now than at the start of the pandemic', as though it's been proved less harmful to kids, rather than more harmful over time.
There's also the current scenario with v limited choice - go to school where likely to catch covid or don't go to school. Groups that purported to protect kids - did they campaign for any measures to keep community cases lower, so schools at least could start from a safer start point? Did they instead say stuff like build up natural immunity, despite the known harms of covid. They give as much of a shit about kids as a spider to a fly.

This Twitter account looks into a lot of the more dubious links. This thread is long but eye-opening.

mobile.twitter.com/karamballes/status/1432482157101035522

More here:
mobile.twitter.com/karamballes/status/1416847426837753862

Links between disinformation groups and government/Brexit groups:
bylinetimes.com/2021/04/01/disinformation-lobbyists-and-brexit-business-bosses-finance-conservative-covid-sceptics-pr/

And one more:
bylinetimes.com/2021/10/07/founders-of-koch-backed-covid-disinformation-organisation-bankroll-new-cross-party-parliamentary-group/

The above has an extra that will surprise no-one about Dingwall:
“Prof Dingwall was previously an advisor on the Government’s NERVTAG and Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) COVID-19 sub-group until a ‘refresh’ in August. Byline Times has previously revealed that, during his JCVI stint, Prof Dingwall was secretly in contact with the HART network.”

Huge crossover between the old ERG (Conservative Brexit group) and the CRG (Conservative anti-lockdown group). Sir Graham Brady has had meetings with the Hart lot. Lots of those MPs have backed Us4Them campaigns, photographed holding up their signs etc.

On the free speech front we have Toby Young who founded the Free Speech Union who also founded Lockdown Sceptics.

Claire Fox and the old Frank Furedi Revolutionary Communist Party lot are often found in the thick of it. She founded the People's Lockdown Inquirer along with terminal bellend Laurence Fox whose Christmas message video having a hug with Calvin Robinson, ivermectin peddler, had to be seen to be believed.

@ZednotZee

It'd be really interesting if we had some data that linked political/ideological affiliation to the active speading of misinformation wouldn't it?

I don't like this pointing this out for several reasons, but yes, there is a very apparent link when you look into the background of many of the people spreading misinformation.

My point is always that you can't dismiss high quality science just because of the dubious views of the author and as soon as it is brought up it becomes a huge diversary tactic on MN.

Ie - posters forget that the claims they are making are nonsense, as well as the fact they have these views.

Debunk the psuedoscience first, then look into the rest of it.

Could it be as simple as covid measures damage business so creating a less trusting and compliant population makes it harder for the government to take such hard line actions? I know anti- vax would seem counter productive in this sense, but it was a huge and very successful operation that probably boosted opinion on the handling of covid.

And another one....
twitter.com/karamballes/status/1449299424786718722?s=21

[quote beentoldcomputersaysno]And another one....
twitter.com/karamballes/status/1449299424786718722?s=21[/quote]
"Children's Union" - yet another iteration of HART /Us4Them

Have reported to twitter - it's misinformation galore, lots of hateful content, links to bitchute etc etc

My personal fave - claiming unvaccinated teens are having menstrual problems due to vaccinated people "shedding"

The Children's Union
@ChildrensUnion
·
Aug 19
In other news, two year old girls menstruating from adult shedding. odysee.com/@Covid1984-Plandemic:1/Corona-Committee-63rd-sitting:2

correction - they are claiming toddlers are menstruating due to vaccinated adults "shedding"

Interesting about the Children’s Union is that they joined twitter in 2018. I was “oh, they’ve been around a while then”

But it was an existing twitter account renamed and rebranded to make it look more legit.

Sneaky liars.