Does having had Covid count as being vaccinated?

[Falcor]

Just that really. For non uk travellers coming over for a short trip?

Thank you beforehand

@bumbleymummy actually I was incorrect at 70% just gone back to the study and it's 65%.
Extract below research on delta in May and June:

We found that two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine gave 71% protection against infection, increasing to 90% for people who had previously tested positive for COVID-19.

Two doses of the Pfizer vaccine provided 87% protection, which went up to 95% for people who had already been infected with the virus.

By contrast, having had COVID-19 without being vaccinated only gave 65% protection against catching it again.

So again this shows that the starting point of immunity is greater if vaccinated then from natural immunity. Hence it is in science and its a easy way for countries to go with lower risk as has been applied for years with vaccination certificates not just covid.

Like I say its peoples choice but don't then moan about what is implemented because you don't like it!

And, as I’ve said already, most studies are showing higher rates of protection after infection (which low incidence of reinfection from ONS would support) and recent studies have shown lower protection against infection after the vaccine - it seems to wane quite quickly.

@bumbleymummy reduction is from 5-6 months but the start point is still higher and natural immunity is variable but also for some from the original variant much lower protection against delta variant.

I suggest you look a variety of studies and sources. One of the plus sides of the zoe app research and data they provide is multiple sources and studies but also large datasets.

Ok, so you haven't then. Then stop talking about natural immunity you don't have. How can you be sure which is better, if you don't have both?
@bumbleymummy

And I don't agree with you, it's been proven that having vaccine addition to infection to be better.
Only thing I agree is an argument that previously infected person to have same status as vaccinated for certain period, if they can prove it.

It's very frustrating when studies aren't actually linked to or cited. Or at least quoted from directly so that you can Google it.

@Umbro02

It should do. You’re better protected if you’ve had Covid than if you’ve only been vaccinated.

Not true . www.immunology.org/coronavirus/connect-coronavirus-public-engagement-resources/covid-immunity-natural-infection-vaccine

@Megistotherium

Ok, so you haven't then. Then stop talking about natural immunity you don't have. How can you be sure which is better, if you don't have both? *@bumbleymummy*

Because I’m basing my opinion on research that was carried out rather than personal opinion? How would me coming onto this thread saying that I still have antibodies 9/12/18 months later prove anything?

@Scottishskifun recent studies showed waning after 2-3 months. I do read a lot of different studies. You seem to be focussing on the Zoe one.

@Megistotherium

And I don't agree with you, it's been proven that having vaccine addition to infection to be better. Only thing I agree is an argument that previously infected person to have same status as vaccinated for certain period, if they can prove it.

Well I haven’t said anything about the former, I was talking about the latter.

after being infected then it makes little sense to say that they need to be vaccinated

That is what I strongly disagree. I think people still be better off being vaccinated, since you really don't know how good your natural immunity would be, and only thing vaccination can do is make it better.

need to be vaccinated in the context of getting a passport to say they are ‘safe’ to be around. People don’t know how good their vaccine induced immunity is either but for some reason we’re treating it as superior.

And vaccines aren’t without side effects. People might be satisfied with the immunity that infection has given them (and studies have shown that it is durable and broad) and therefore don’t want to take the vaccine as well. They shouldn’t be pressured into it purely for the sake of being allowed entry to somewhere when they are not a risk to anyone anyway.

@Falcor are the travellers from the EU?

They should be able to travel on the COVID pass which shows that they're either vaccinated, recovered from COVID, or tested negative.

See here:

ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/safe-covid-19-vaccines-europeans/eu-digital-covid-certificate_en

I haven't read any research, is there anyone on here who has the latest on the new strains? Will my booster jab (I had it mildly and have had the 2 Pfizer vaccines) be against a 'new' strain or just a top up?

Delta is still the dominant strain. The boosters are the same Pfizer vaccine.

@bumbleymummy I read bmj studies, also use the WHO covid studies search. I just find the zoe app a very useful source which also includes other research summaries.

As said proof of vaccination for travel has been used long before covid and countries are free to make their own rules about entry into places. Ireland requires it for more places than the UK.

There is a simple solution if you want to do things like travel, if you still don't wish to then that's your decision like thousands of other people. I really don't get then complaining about it!

Thank you bumbley I'm not sure if I'm having strange symptoms of headaches and a continually runny nose from the vaccines and wonder if the booster is important (I have to travel to and from France quite a lot).

Would it be necessary?

I do eat carefully with plenty of fresh vit.C

We all have covid in our house apart from teen dd (15) unvaccinated. dh and I both double vaccinated ds (16) had one and younger dd unvaccinated- we 4 have it. Dd (15) had covid in the summer and hasn’t caught it again so in our case having it is better immunity. She’s tested negative on a pcr which was taken just inside 90 days.

[quote Scottishskifun]@bumbleymummy I read bmj studies, also use the WHO covid studies search. I just find the zoe app a very useful source which also includes other research summaries.

As said proof of vaccination for travel has been used long before covid and countries are free to make their own rules about entry into places. Ireland requires it for more places than the UK.

There is a simple solution if you want to do things like travel, if you still don't wish to then that's your decision like thousands of other people. I really don't get then complaining about it![/quote]
If you are talking about the yellow fever vaccine, it’s required for very few countries. And yellow fever is a much more dangerous disease compared to COVID.

We’re also talking about people being required to have a vaccine for something that they are already immune to. It doesn’t make any sense to allow people who are vaccinated into a venue but not people who have previously been infected when the vaccinated person is more likely to be able to contract and transmit the disease than the previously infected person.

@ppeatfruit

I haven't read any research, is there anyone on here who has the latest on the new strains? Will my booster jab (I had it mildly and have had the 2 Pfizer vaccines) be against a 'new' strain or just a top up?

Currently it's a top up there is a ongoing trial of an adjusted booster but that won't be this set of boosters.

It depends on when you had covid in relation to getting your vaccination. If within 6 months this was shown to offer very high protection.

As for travel no currently boosters aren't required for travel to France but this is subject to change and what that country implements as controls. Your vaccination certificate should have a expiry date on them our scottish paper ones is a year so it's worth keeping an eye on it and changing travel info.

@ppeatfruit It’s entirely up to you. afaik the boosters are optional at the moment - I don’t think your proof of vaccination is going to be revoked if you don’t have it. I suppose that may change in the future.

Yes I and 4 of my extended family had it just before testing and lockdown. 4 more had one who had been jabbed. Dh (who is vulnerable) has not had it but has had a yearly flu jab for years.

Thanks Scottish It leaves me in a quandary. I wonder if it's worth waiting until the booster includes an ingredient against the new strain?

@bumbleymummy have some immunity to not all and not greater than vaccination and still unknown time of immunity hence most EU countries which accept recovery as proof only do so up to 9 months (country dependent). Research also shows that the greatest immunity comes from having the infection and having the vaccine.

It's not just yellow fever some countries require proof of TB depending on where you are travelling from and how long you will be there.

These rules aren't going to change anytime soon. Your choice not to be vaccinated my choice to be and continue travelling!

No.