Does having had Covid count as being vaccinated?

[Falcor]

Just that really. For non uk travellers coming over for a short trip?

Thank you beforehand

Here’s a bmj article discussing it for those interested. Yes there are examples of people being infected with covid more than once but the numbers appear very small so far. And there are several European countries who count natural immunity as protective.

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101

Why don’t we in the U.K.?

You can get an NHS covid pass valid for 180 days after positive pcr, so natural immunity isn't exactly being ignored. www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-covid-pass#who-can-get-an-nhs-covid-pass-in-england

@Umbro02

It should do. You’re better protected if you’ve had Covid than if you’ve only been vaccinated.

This isn't true.

Well so far protection after infection has been shown to last longer and has been found to be broader than protection after vaccination. The vaccine is reducing the risk of serious illness in the most vulnerable groups but we need to move away from the idea that natural immunity is somehow inferior and therefore only vaccinated people should be allowed entry to certain places.

[quote Reallybadidea]You can get an NHS covid pass valid for 180 days after positive pcr, so natural immunity isn't exactly being ignored. www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-covid-pass#who-can-get-an-nhs-covid-pass-in-england[/quote]
Wow I did not know this, is this new? I am in Scotland and I don’t think this applies here. Glad to see it.

[quote Reallybadidea]You can get an NHS covid pass valid for 180 days after positive pcr, so natural immunity isn't exactly being ignored. www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-covid-pass#who-can-get-an-nhs-covid-pass-in-england[/quote]
It's something at least. Though I had covid over 18 months ago (no test but distinctive symptoms and later positive for antibodies), I did an antibody test this month and I'm still positive. I haven't been ill or had a positive LFT or PCR since so it doesn't help me though.

Umbro02
”It should do. You’re better protected if you’ve had Covid than if you’ve only been vaccinated.”

You are right.

A large study from Israel suggests natural infection is more protective.

www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

On the other hand, the Zoe data suggests the opposite!

Haha no. That wouldn't make anyone any money! You'll also need to pay extra for private tests. Covid is all about the cha ching.

@Megistotherium

I always wanted to ask you. You think the natural immunity is better than the vaccine immunity, right?. I know you haven't been vaccinated, have you had Covid, *@bumbleymummy*? You keep saying majority of people have had covid. But I know no one who had it around me, including my dc who goes to state school.

Blimey, I know so many people who have/ had it now. Since we've come out of lockdown the numbers here have shot up.

Best protection is double jabbed and Covid iirc.

@bumbleymummy

Well so far protection after infection has been shown to last longer and has been found to be broader than protection after vaccination. The vaccine is reducing the risk of serious illness in the most vulnerable groups but we need to move away from the idea that natural immunity is somehow inferior and therefore only vaccinated people should be allowed entry to certain places.

Actually what's been shown best in terms of protection is having covid then getting vaccinated - 94% protection against re-infection compared to 70% from natural immunity alone.

As for the only double vaccinated people should be allowed places or travel (unless medically exempt which is very different) Well its personal choice not to be vaccinated but that comes with its own consequences not just health roulette. So you have to accept those consequences are part of the choice you make 🤷‍♂️

when you recover from covid you get a “recovered from covid” qr code.

The previous poster is correct. You are the safest person in the world to be around post covid. You can’t catch it again (in the immediate future) and you cannot be asymptomatic (and therefore cannot unintentionally pass it on).

The timings around how quick you can re-catch it etc are starting to emerge as about a 6 month window.

The best protection is actually having the virus then being double vaccinated which studies are showing is 94% effective at not catching covid but same level of protection against serious issues from the vaccination

What serious issues from the vaccination? None as serious as getting Covid!

@Scottishskifun surely the logic in preventing people from entering certain places is to reduce the chance of someone with the virus entering? So if someone is immune after having the virus, they are low risk to others anyway. One could argue less risk seeing as protection from reinfection is higher than protection against infection after the vaccine. (where did you read 70% btw? Most of the studies I’ve read have been over 80%. Incidence of reinfection according to ons figures is really low)

It sounds more like you just want To punish people for not being vaccinated rather than it being anything to do with science.

@Umbro02

It should do. You’re better protected if you’ve had Covid than if you’ve only been vaccinated.

Not from reinfection youre not. Poss from havingva serious case.

@bumbleymummy, have you had covid? Do you have natural immunity?

I've read some articles last few days, and it said if there are breakthrough cases it always involves unvaccinated people, and there are many antibodies found in vaccinated people's upper respiratory tract that makes it less likely to be infected.

If that's true, then it makes perfect sense to have restrictions for unvaccinated people mixing with vaccinated people, maybe not the ones recently recovered from covid since they have immunity.

maybe not the ones recently recovered from covid since they have immunity.

That’s who we’re talking about.

(Also, myob

I currently have symptomatic Covid, I am also double jabbed. Does this mean that I will be exempt from the booster as I’m over 50 as surely this means now I don’t need it if having Covid gives me 6 months or so immunity? I genuinely can’t see the point in having the booster now as I must have antibodies for a few months at least.

@bumbleymummy latest data from the zoe app which is King's College and other partnership.
The immunity from natural infection is person dependent and also variant dependent with alpha and delta showing better protection then if people had the original variant.

The point is to reduce risk given how long immunity lasts from natural infection alone it's still not proven (and the majority of places it is accepted in the EU for instance is only 6 months) countries, travel and businesses go with the lower risk. Given vaccination start point of protection is higher than natural immunity that is vaccination so yes it is held in science.

I don't wish to punish anyone like anything in life its a choice with pros and cons. One of the cons unvaccinated people have to accept is their ability to go to events or travel. Proof of vaccination for travel isn't new many countries for decades have required proof of vaccination for certain illnesses. If people choose not to get those vaccinations without medical exemption means they have to accept they cannot travel to those places. Covid vaccine isn't much different!

I've had COVID and two subsequent antibody tests have been negative, i.e. showing that I have no antibodies.

[quote Scottishskifun]@bumbleymummy latest data from the zoe app which is King's College and other partnership.
The immunity from natural infection is person dependent and also variant dependent with alpha and delta showing better protection then if people had the original variant.

The point is to reduce risk given how long immunity lasts from natural infection alone it's still not proven (and the majority of places it is accepted in the EU for instance is only 6 months) countries, travel and businesses go with the lower risk. Given vaccination start point of protection is higher than natural immunity that is vaccination so yes it is held in science.

I don't wish to punish anyone like anything in life its a choice with pros and cons. One of the cons unvaccinated people have to accept is their ability to go to events or travel. Proof of vaccination for travel isn't new many countries for decades have required proof of vaccination for certain illnesses. If people choose not to get those vaccinations without medical exemption means they have to accept they cannot travel to those places. Covid vaccine isn't much different![/quote]
Vaccine protection is person dependent too though. We do have quite a lot of data now showing that protection after infection lasts 9-12 months in the majority (and most studies do show that’s over 80%). We also know that protection from infection after the vaccine is lower, wanes faster and is less broad, based on several recent studies. The vaccine is reducing the risk of serious illness, which is great, but there really isn’t much strength behind the argument that vaccinated people are somehow ‘safer’ to be around compared to people who are immune after infection.

My point is that it doesn’t make sense to prevent immune people from travelling at all. Why should there be a ‘consequence’ of not being vaccinated if they are immune.

@Throughabushbackwards

I've had COVID and two subsequent antibody tests have been negative, i.e. showing that I have no antibodies.

Lack of antibodies doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re not immune.

I asked twice, but you haven't answered my question, have you had covid yourself, since you are strongly promoting natural immunity, and saying it's better than vaccine, @bumbleymummy?
I'm all for natural immunity to be considered immune too, if they've had it before had a chance to get vaccinated, but pursuing natural immunity instead of vaccination is silly idea and costing this country to move on to normal.

I did answer it - last line of my previous post to you, mega - myob. Not sure why you think it’s relevant anyway. In answer to your previous question as well, yes, I know lots of people who have had it. All mildly. One, with underlying health issues was ill for longer (this was pre-vaccine). I’m surprised that people don’t know anyone who has had it although I guess seeing as most cases are mild or asymptomatic, they may not know they’ve had it.

And again, I’m not saying it’s ‘better’ than a vaccine, I’m quoting the studies that show where it provides better/longer/broader protection compared to the vaccine. I’ve already said that it is good at reducing the risk of serious illness so of course if people are in higher risk groups, the vaccine makes more sense than trying to get natural immunity from the virus.

We seem to agree that if someone is already immune after being infected then it makes little sense to say that they need to be vaccinated in order to get access to certain places - they could be less risk to others than vaccinated people. And that is what we’re discussing here.