Concerns over visiting UK

[burningfromtheinside]

I'm due to visit UK to see my family soon, haven't been there for two years due to the pandemic. I live in Italy, in the north, in one of the places hit by COVID at the very beginning in Feb 2020, however despite this, I still personally don't know one person who has contracted it, not even the Delta, no one pre and post vaccination. I have a large network of friends and work in large company ( although we're still WFH) Reading here and hearing from plenty of friends in the UK, so many people seem to have had it there, despite being double vaccinated. I don't know if it's because masks are still mandatory here indoors, or that COVID passports are mandatory for nearly everything, but I can't understand why it's so different. This is making me concerned about coming to UK, I feel like I'll catch it there no matter what. The whole family are Pfizer double vaccinated ( most of Italy is Pfizered, could it be this?!) I wonder if a large proportion of people are not vaccinated there or if because the vaccine program was much earlier in the UK, most people are no longer covered ( I'm in my 50s and was vaccinated in June) Anyway does anyone, like me not know a single person who has had COVID or it is just rife there? I should add I also don't know anyone who is not vaccinated here.

I just wish people stopped believing all this British propaganda of ‘we’ve done a great job, we’re ahead, it’s fine to lift restrictions and we’re still good’.

Me and dp are both from different European countries and I'm sick of the anti UK propaganda that Europe is a utopia and have amazing medical and health. It's literally not true at all. The UK media just do a good job pretending. Europe is struggling as well.

I think there a few things here:

UK case numbers are quite high. We test a lot more than many comparator countries, but our positivity rate is much lower than a number of them (Portugal is running at 5.8%, Germany at 5.7%, Italy at 5.1%, UK at 2.9%). That said, our case load is unarguably high - partly driven by getting Delta earlier, and partly driven by opening up earlier and dropping all restrictions faster, so there are currently very few barriers to slow transmission.

When you look at age breakdowns, transmission and case rates are really interesting. In almost all age groups, transmission has declined steadily. The outliers are 10-17 year olds and 35-49 year olds where there was a high spike, which in recent days seems to be declining. This looks really similar to what happened in Scotland where schools went back there (albeit Scotland had mitigations still in place.)

So the challenge and the risk is demographically specific - I've seen a few epidemiologists saying that without 'schoolkids and their parents' our numbers would be much, much lower.

That doesn't deal with the fact that our mortality and hospitalisation figures are still higher - they aren't good, but with boosters hopefully we will see an improvement there are our most elderly and vulnerable were the very first to be vaccinated, and with a smaller gap between vaccines, and that is still the demographic (vaccinated or not) who are still most at risk of death and will remain at risk from high case numbers.

I don't think anyone is 'buying UK propaganda' @eileenGC. Our handling of covid was shambolic for at least the first year and few people have any faith in the government. But personally I saw the logic in the modelling that suggested removing restrictions and encouraging cases to peak earlier and faster in the summer and autumn. Other countries are still using suppression measures that at some point will need to be lifted and virus case numbers will then increase. There will be a variable but substantial unvaccinated adult population in every country.

I also think that as so many people have had covid here, this influences behaviour. Most people having recovered relatively easily, will be less fearful and more apt to behave normally than in other countries that have experienced fewer cases.

From what I see of my NZ family, life's been pretty normal there most of the time.

For example, my side of the family had a big family wedding in NZ, nobody caught covid.

DH's side of the family had a similarly sized wedding in the UK, we all tested beforehand and still 36 of us that I know of caught covid.

That was in July, and I'm still not back to normal running-wise, or general energy level wise.

Lack of covid makes people feel safer because it is safer.

Loads of covid and pretending everything's back to normal makes people with a firm grip on reality feel twitchy.

New Zealand.......what has the UK got in common with New Zealand? What an utterly pointless comparison

@ShaneTheThird

People are utterly delusional if they genuinely think countries all report the same and that the UK just happens to be the worst country for covid. We started vaccinations before the rest of the world. We have most of the population vaxxed. We have the same variant other countries have so why do you believe british people are more at risk of death than the rest of Europe despite the same vaccines.

Exactly. I am sick to death of the anti UK crap. Everywhere you go.....150k dead due to Covid......you terrible country. You are so unsafe. Your govt don't know what they're doing. It's exhausting. No govt really knew what they were doing. And please god don't mention feckin New Zealand.

@Dishhh

I'm in Australia - an English-born work friend of mine went home a few weeks ago (there are flights apparently) and caught Covid within the week. He was quite ill too.

Oh that must be because the UK is the only place with Covid 🤦🏻‍♀️

It's 160,000 deaths with covid listed on the death certificate.

Tomorrow or the next day it will reach 161,000.

wow - I know so many people that have had it.

However if you are just visiting your parents and avoid schools and football matches and the like I think you're more than likely to be fine.

A very great proportion of people currently ill are school children.

I think the U.K. is ahead of the curve compared to Europe with regard to covid. Pretty much everything is open with very few restrictions. If the rest of Europe want to return to a more normal situation then there will be a much higher number of case there too. It’s going to have to happen sometime.

@Pootle40

Dishhh

I'm in Australia - an English-born work friend of mine went home a few weeks ago (there are flights apparently) and caught Covid within the week. He was quite ill too.

Oh that must be because the UK is the only place with Covid 🤦🏻‍♀️

Mmm - perhaps as this thread is about qualms about visiting the UK because of the level of Covid? And this person catching Covid within the first week or so of arriving is somewhat relevant? Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

@CiderWithLizzie

I think the U.K. is ahead of the curve compared to Europe with regard to covid. Pretty much everything is open with very few restrictions. If the rest of Europe want to return to a more normal situation then there will be a much higher number of case there too. It’s going to have to happen sometime.

I don’t know. Spain is an interesting comparison as an example as it doesn’t have any restrictions now apart from mask wearing indoors (unlike France with COVID passes etc) and while our populations are similar, our case numbers were similar in the summer but Spain’s have plummeted while ours haven’t. Im not interested in absolute numbers (as pp have said, we test more) but the shape of the curve. Portugal similar. Other countries have vaccine passports but if you have one life is more or less back to normal, in France and Ireland they’re reducing indoor mask wearing too.

I’m sure I read that masks have been shown to be not hugely effective as preventing spread anyway, and (in London at least) a fair few people are still wearing them indoors in crowded places So we’re in a similar position to Europe really, if you look behind the “freedom day” headlines.

Hi OP
I'm in a similar situation but living in Asia in a country where we require government approval for re-entry and many positive cases are automatically isolated in a facility even if asymptomatic. We also need to prove 14 days negative before reentry. We really want to come back to the U.K. for Xmas to see friends and family - it's been more than 2 years now - but for us the implications of testing positive, even if we don't get sick, are just huge. We don't know whether to risk it or not. We could end up being stuck for 1-2 months away from school/pets/work or worst case my youngest potentially taken to an isolation facility. So difficult to make these decisions!

NZ has lower levels of circulating covid, but we wouldn't be able to have this conversation as no one is able to go there.
So OP wouldn't- in that scenario- have the ability to visit her relatives. That's the reality and the trade off.

It's really tricky @backatschool
I'm in uk and we have family in another European country we haven't seen for 2 yrs.
We said we wouldn't go while there was still a requirement to test to get back into uk in case one of us tested positive and we got stuck there.
Fortunately that's changing here now for fully vaccinated travellers

I feel similar about this too. We live in China and I want to see family next summer (only me and eldest can go due to restrictions on re-entering - my youngest would not be allowed to re enter without a vaccine). It's been almost 2 years already but I'm terrified of contracting it in the U.K. and then that showing up on the mandatory blood test before re-entry and not being allowed back in. My father is dying and I desperately want to see him. It's so difficult.

It is a bit annoying that so many of you say you are terrified of getting it in the UK when millions of us who've not been outside the UK (or British Isles) since March 2020 have not contracted it!

I think that’s unfair @lockdownmadnessdotcom I read it as they’re terrified of not being allowed to fly home/back to work (presumably the same reason you and most others haven’t left the British isles) more than terrified of the virus. Which is fair enough.

[quote Dishhh]@Pootle40

Dishhh

I'm in Australia - an English-born work friend of mine went home a few weeks ago (there are flights apparently) and caught Covid within the week. He was quite ill too.

Oh that must be because the UK is the only place with Covid 🤦🏻‍♀️

Mmm - perhaps as this thread is about qualms about visiting the UK because of the level of Covid? And this person catching Covid within the first week or so of arriving is somewhat relevant? Sorry if that hurts your feelings.[/quote]
If he caught it within the first week then he quite possibly caught it on that 20+ hour flight from Australia and not in the UK at all!

I've been in the UK throughout the pandemic. I don't wear a mask any more unless mandated (medical settings, etc), and I haven't caught Covid yet.

I don't know why people are saying we don't need vaccine passports in England. If you book tickets for anything, you have to show your vaccine status, negative LFT or natural immunity (anti bodies). But we don't need them for pubs, restaurants or shops. So it's not as if they are not required at all

Honest question about the Covid passes as I haven’t been to big events in the UK yet, just visited friends and went over for work a few times.

What happens if you refuse to show proof of vaccine, test or immunity? Is it the same as masks - they’re not allowed to challenge you? Or is it properly enforced - no proof, no entrance to X.

I’d say going to the theatre, where you’ll be seated for the entire show and most people will wear a mask, is much less riskier than a wedding or a club. That’s where Covid passes should be checked - where there is the most risk.

I'm pretty sure you'd be refused entry I'm going again to the theatre today, I'll watch closely although I doubt if anyone would risk it. You don't have to wear masks once you're in

@zafferana

*If he caught it within the first week then he quite possibly caught it on that 20+ hour flight from Australia and not in the UK at all!

I've been in the UK throughout the pandemic. I don't wear a mask any more unless mandated (medical settings, etc), and I haven't caught Covid yet.*

I should have made that clearer: he came down with Covid a week or two after he emerged from isolation. He was also fully vaccinated and tested frequently upon leaving Australia and arriving in the UK.

I'm glad you haven't caught Covid yet - long may that last!

[quote Dishhh]@zafferana

*If he caught it within the first week then he quite possibly caught it on that 20+ hour flight from Australia and not in the UK at all!

I've been in the UK throughout the pandemic. I don't wear a mask any more unless mandated (medical settings, etc), and I haven't caught Covid yet.*

I should have made that clearer: he came down with Covid a week or two after he emerged from isolation. He was also fully vaccinated and tested frequently upon leaving Australia and arriving in the UK.

I'm glad you haven't caught Covid yet - long may that last![/quote]
It can happen I guess but it’s rare. I’m in London and have managed to not get it for whole time, unless asymptomatic.

Looking at map London is lighter than other areas, which is quite a new situation

Rare in that timeframe I mean. We’ve had a lot of cases over all obvs