Refusing to be vaccinated or tested

[WTFCanIDoAboutThis]

NC

Does anyone know someone who refuses to be vaccinated or tested and if so, how is it impacting their day to day life?

@Jennifermadison

I haven't had the vaccine or been tested - reasons why

Millions of people have had covid so what logic is there to testing for something everyone will get anyway.

Reasons for not getting a vaccine is I'm not worried about covid, the vaccine worries me more than a virus that has an average mortality age of 83. The vaccine doesn't last long with immunity is another issue and have no intention of taking boosters of the rest of my life for a disease that doesn't worry me

Each to their own I say

Plus one here, I don’t want vaccinated either for the reasons you mention, my family aren’t happy with me but I live alone and barely see them anyway and they’ve all been done so I don’t see what their issue is with me not getting it, I don’t know anyone directly that had it that bad anyway.

@DottyHarmer

I’m not scaremongering. It is absolutely true.

Look how hospital admissions have fallen with the vaccine.

Can’t be doing with anti-vaxxers. Ignorant and the memories of a particularly thick fish.

The only people ranting about anti vaxxers all day and night are those with a fairly limited IQ that just throw the term out living on social media most of the day. Even when individuals take other vaccines they still spew out the term, it's embarrassing but they can't help it I suppose.

Incidentally there are more people in hospital than this time last year so let's wait till the middle of winter before bold claims about the vaccine effectiveness which will need continual top ups. If you're frightened have the boosters instead of ranting at others who make a different decision @DottyHarmerotty

I haven’t ever tested or been vaccinated, it’s not impacted on my life.

I know one, he also refused to wear a mask, and apart from not being allowed into Sainsbury's or our house (CEV adult DS who I'd quite like to see before he dies), I don't think it impacts his life that much.

@TheLovelinessOfDemons

I know one, he also refused to wear a mask, and apart from not being allowed into Sainsbury's or our house (CEV adult DS who I'd quite like to see before he dies), I don't think it impacts his life that much.

Do sainsburys enforce masks still?

What you call covid minimising I call living a finite life not buying into the hysteria as you clearly do

Again - I don't think you understand. You see unable to see past a situation of either removal of all measures at once or "hysteria, living in terror, cowering"

There's a tad more nuance to it than that - keeping cases at a manageable level is what allows us to carry on living with minimal disruption to our lives, especially in the current context of moving into Autumn, schools returning, and university students moving across the country.

This isn't hysteria it's just very basic public health, on an understanding that trying to reign in an out of control pandemic is far more damaging than continuing measures such as masks in crowded spaces, isolation if positive, asymptomatic testing, and vaccination.

What you are calling for risks schools and education being disrupted, people dying of non-COVID emergencies and all the other issues that emerge when a pandemic begins to get out of control.

Yes my MIL as she had a bad reaction to an injection when she's was younger- now in her 70s. So far I don't think it has effected her life at all but she's not one to go abroad much or go to crowded places and concerts etc anyway. She lives a very low key life.

@riveted1

What you call covid minimising I call living a finite life not buying into the hysteria as you clearly do

Again - I don't think you understand. You see unable to see past a situation of either removal of all measures at once or "hysteria, living in terror, cowering"

There's a tad more nuance to it than that - keeping cases at a manageable level is what allows us to carry on living with minimal disruption to our lives, especially in the current context of moving into Autumn, schools returning, and university students moving across the country.

This isn't hysteria it's just very basic public health, on an understanding that trying to reign in an out of control pandemic is far more damaging than continuing measures such as masks in crowded spaces, isolation if positive, asymptomatic testing, and vaccination.

What you are calling for risks schools and education being disrupted, people dying of non-COVID emergencies and all the other issues that emerge when a pandemic begins to get out of control.

Covid hasn't disrupted schools and education , hysteria to covid with disproportional measures taken with a virus that doesn't affect children has caused the disruption.

Florence Nightingale hospitals have been dismantled, there was never any need for them yet the NHS is talking about being overrun again. The following article is taken from the Guardian

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/02/nhs-winter-crisis-extra-beds-created-by-52-per-cent-of-uk-hospitals

A few relevant parts " More than half of hospitals have opened extra beds to help them cope with the NHS winter crisis amid an influx of patients with potentially fatal breathing problems.

Many of the so-called escalation beds are already occupied by people suffering from flu, pneumonia or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease exacerbated by the arrival of very cold weather in many parts of the UK.In recent years the NHS has defied the odds and somehow managed to cope despite warnings about the impact of winter pressures. This time it is heading into what is likely to be the worst winter since modern records began in the eye of a perfect storm,” said Siva Anandaciva, chief analyst at the King’s Fund thinktank, in a new blog.

“The NHS is heading into winter in unusually bad shape” because it has not had any respite from an unusually busy summer "

The above article was taken before covid arrived in 2019- the job of a healthcare system is to protect the public not the other way around with people needing to take continual jabs indefinitely to protect it.

Plenty of icu nurses have frequented this board telling tales of younger people needed serious treatment and then consequently being sick for a long time afterwards. It’s not uncommon.Needing care for weeks/months. It’s not always about death.

One of my friends had an underlying health condition but would of lived a reasonably long life if he hadn’t have caught covid. It knackered his body and killed him eventually. He wouldn’t go down as a covid death as it was past 28 days later.He was 36. Covid also caused the premature death of my uncle who had years left in him.

I’m absolutely getting on with life, but I’m not so naive to suggest covid isn’t that bad unless you are over 80. I don’t care if those don’t have the vaccine or a test. That’s individual choice and there’s enough info out there now I do care for those that are affected by those actions when they try everything to prevent them catching it or at least minimising it’s effects.

You appear to be conflating a lot of issues at once @Jennifermadison

How does other people wearing masks, asymptomatic testing, vaccination and isolation if testing positive significantly impact on your life?

COVID disrupts education because children need to isolate if they test positive, may need time of sick, and can't be taught if too many of staff are either isolating or off sick.

The FN hospitals were dismantled because they weren't fit for purpose and there was never enough staff to run them. Not because we didn't need them.

Yup the NHS has been overwhelmed before and is in dire straits, but I doubt that would be much comfort to you if a loved one needed an ICU bed after surgery and there weren't any, or not enough staff to carry out a GA, or they caught COVID whilst recovering because it wasn't possible to isolate them.

You also seem to be confused about boosters. Currently they're being offered to those at risk to bolster immunity. No indication the general population will need "continual jabs", and not sure why you're so opposed to an annual COVID jab for some proportion of the pop like we do with 'flu.

Also nightingale hospitals weren’t used because there was no staff. It was a PR exercise. Also not fit for purpose with access to labs/radiology/basic facilities Hospitals had to send staff with the patients, yeah cos staff were just there available and not needed in the actual hospital.

We made ICUs in theatres and in recovery areas, took over extra wards just for covid. That’s how we coped. The nhs is a mess and has been for a long time before the pandemic ask any staff member and they will tell you. However throwing a pandemic in the mix has probably broken it completely to be honest.

We wouldn’t have to protect a properly funded healthcare system with capacity and a properly funded and functional social care system where patients could be safely move to instead of having to stay in hospital.

@riveted1

You appear to be conflating a lot of issues at once *@Jennifermadison*

How does other people wearing masks, asymptomatic testing, vaccination and isolation if testing positive significantly impact on your life?

COVID disrupts education because children need to isolate if they test positive, may need time of sick, and can't be taught if too many of staff are either isolating or off sick.

The FN hospitals were dismantled because they weren't fit for purpose and there was never enough staff to run them. Not because we didn't need them.

Yup the NHS has been overwhelmed before and is in dire straits, but I doubt that would be much comfort to you if a loved one needed an ICU bed after surgery and there weren't any, or not enough staff to carry out a GA, or they caught COVID whilst recovering because it wasn't possible to isolate them.

You also seem to be confused about boosters. Currently they're being offered to those at risk to bolster immunity. No indication the general population will need "continual jabs", and not sure why you're so opposed to an annual COVID jab for some proportion of the pop like we do with 'flu.

I stopped reading at " how does wearing masks, asymptomatic testing, vaccination and isolation if testing positive significantly impact on life?" The idea that people can keep isolating as one eg and it won't affect life or the threat of continual boosters for years to access basic things not being an issue is just too daft to reply to.

As immunity from the vaccine is limited ( hence the boosters) why do you think anyone vaccinated now will be firstly immune from covid down the road or more importantly if travelling to other countries, be treated as immune with a "vaccine passport". If only those at most risk of covid complications are being offered boosters, what's the point in vaccinating everyone else with fading immunity if they aren't going to receive boosters?

Had a lovely patient really struggling and requiring some oxygen support but thankfully not too severe. She was initially very stand offish about the vaccine and treatment "I've not been vaccinated and don't wish to discuss it" "I won't take oral steroids I don't believe that is necessary".

I was in hospital recently for covid, (vaxxed but immunosuppressed). My fellow patients were much younger than me and unvaxed. The list of drugs we were all given as well as oxygen was extensive. Dexamethasone, tinzaparin (blood thinner), tocilizumab (biological anti inflammatory), tazocin (strong antibiotic) and in a couple of cases morphine.
All because they didn't want to put a vaccine in their body 🙄

@Jennifermadison

You seem to be ignoring everything I said.

How do other people wearing masks in crowded spaces, doing asymptomatic testing, taking up the vaccine, and isolating if positive impact on you?

Most people will have COVID once in the short-term, reinfection is relatively rare. Isolating whilst you're infectious with a novel virus, in the current situation, is not a hysterical reaction.

Boosters are only recommended for a subset of the population and there is no indication of "continual boosters" for everyone. And again - why is an annual for some people such an issue for you? Why aren't you protesting against the annual 'flu jabs?

You're the only person stating (hysterically) that these measures will be required forever. In the current context, as we head into autumn, they are not an overreaction.

Were the scenes in Italy in 2020 fake?

Was the rush to develop vaccines all some big pharma conspiracy?

[quote riveted1]@Jennifermadison

You seem to be ignoring everything I said.

How do other people wearing masks in crowded spaces, doing asymptomatic testing, taking up the vaccine, and isolating if positive impact on you?

Most people will have COVID once in the short-term, reinfection is relatively rare. Isolating whilst you're infectious with a novel virus, in the current situation, is not a hysterical reaction.

Boosters are only recommended for a subset of the population and there is no indication of "continual boosters" for everyone. And again - why is an annual for some people such an issue for you? Why aren't you protesting against the annual 'flu jabs?

You're the only person stating (hysterically) that these measures will be required forever. In the current context, as we head into autumn, they are not an overreaction.[/quote]
The annual jab for some people who voluntarily take it is no issue to me. My issue and question which you have failed to answer is this-

Why is the entire population above 12 years old being vaccinated for a virus that doesn't affect the vast majority of these age groups with short lived immunity measure in months and no boosters planned? There are no plans for boosters for most of this demographic when immunity doesn't last. You either pledge to vaccinate everyone ( within reason ) above 12 and follow it up with boosters for everyone or you simply vaccinate the vulnerable which is how it should have been in the first place.

In a couple of years or much less we will have the vulnerable with boosters who are protected and everyone else not protected unless having caught covid so where is the logic in that way forward?

@CatAlice

Had a lovely patient really struggling and requiring some oxygen support but thankfully not too severe. She was initially very stand offish about the vaccine and treatment "I've not been vaccinated and don't wish to discuss it" "I won't take oral steroids I don't believe that is necessary".

I was in hospital recently for covid, (vaxxed but immunosuppressed). My fellow patients were much younger than me and unvaxed. The list of drugs we were all given as well as oxygen was extensive. Dexamethasone, tinzaparin (blood thinner), tocilizumab (biological anti inflammatory), tazocin (strong antibiotic) and in a couple of cases morphine.
All because they didn't want to put a vaccine in their body 🙄

I'm glad you recovered from your experience in hospital, out of curiosity how did you know what your fellow patients were taking in terms of drugs and their vaccination status? The statistics released by the ONS show the vast majority of patients in hospital with covid are elderly unless they are lying of course

A parent at school is refusing both, and also refusing permission for their DC to be tested

The only impact on their day to day life is probably a hell of a lot of eye rolling behind their back, plus not many party and play date invitations on the back of it

Yes.

It isn’t.

One is a police officer, the other a sahm. No affect at all.

Unvaccinated here. I know around ten people who are also unvaccinated. Only one or two of them would refuse to test. The rest would test if they had symptoms. Doesn't impact their life. Two of them had Covid recently so they have some kind of 90 day Covid immunity pass (I wasn't even aware that was a thing!!).

I test if I have cold symptoms as DH works with a person with a debilitating condition and I don't want us to pass anything on to her.

"I'm not a doctor"

It shows

I have a friend who isn't vaccinated - she's desperate to be, but doctors can't reassure her in relation to her own personal health issue, as to whether it's the right thing to do now or leave it. She knows health issue will be solved in next few weeks, but is terrified of getting covid (partly worried it'll impact on immediate health issue). She goes out for a walk three times a day avoiding people - her family have to work but other than that they don't mix with others/get online orders. I'm the only friend she'll see - we meet outside, distanced - she wears a mask unless we get a takeaway drink. I think she sees me as she knows I'm vaccinated and I want to do a LFT before seeing her (we both know they only eliminate the risk though. She'll have to go into hospital in next few weeks and I'll give it to her is also torn as she wants to protect others and knows hospital staff will have to be close to her.

Had the vaccine, won't get the booster, never tested and if I got symptoms I am quite capable of isolating myself and don't need someone fromT&T to incessantly pester me on my isolation. This makes no difference to my life apart from giving me peace and quiet should I get covid

@Jennifermadison

How do I know?
Haha there is zero privacy in hospital, a curtain at best. The first question asked by every doctor every round is "have you had your vaccination?" and if the answer was no then "why not". I presume it informs their treatment plan as the prognosis is much better with vaccine. As to drugs one nurse gives out injections of bloodthinners. Then tablets or drips. And we talked to each other! I was in a women's bay of 4 beds. Patients come in and are discharged or moved up to ICU. I don't know the ages of the men or those on ICU. Youwould probably call me elderly at 61 but others were in 30s and 40s and one a bit older. All had different reasons for refusing the vaccine.

It's a nice way to feel safe to tell yourself that you are not elderly and therefore couldn't possibly be unlucky enough to be seriously ill with covid. Same goes for underlying health conditions. Those who jump in and say about covid victims "ah but did they have underlying health cond" are essentially trying to reassure themselves that it couldn't happen to them.

The wording in the op here speaks volumes.

Why use 'refuses' when you could use 'chooses'?