Tell me why my son of 14 should have the covid jab?

[Notagoodtime]

This is not a antivax question. My husband and I are double jabbed. I am currently in bed with COVID. My reason for wanting my kids to have the jab was to protect others. As I seem to know lots of people at the moment who are double jabbed and have or have had covid this reasoning isn’t really valid. If we are being are being told that kids get the virus mildly what are the reasons? If my son could still get covid it doesn’t really make feel more confident about him spreading it to the vulnerable. I’m trying to get my head around the advantages before I make a decision. I’m glad I have had the vaccine as I still feel rubbish so dread to think how I would be without but surely this isn’t the same for kids?

@bumbleymummy you seem fixated on the idea that most people who die from covid are obese.

Unfortunately that's not the full picture because there are other things that make people vulnerable. I keep hearing about slim people who died from covid. In the us and the uk.

Because it's a new virus not everything is known about who is most susceptible

[quote Itsnotover]@bumbleymummy you seem fixated on the idea that most people who die from covid are obese.

Unfortunately that's not the full picture because there are other things that make people vulnerable. I keep hearing about slim people who died from covid. In the us and the uk.[/quote]
Yes.

And obesity is extremely complex. For those who have been obese for decades, it's really not as simple as losing weight, and even if they do, this doesn't automatically reverse the health conditions like TDM2, hypertension, atherosclerosis, CHD, history of blood clots etc that put that at high risk of COVID in the first place. Obese is often an index for these poor COVID outcomes, rather than the causal factor.

It's a public health crisis for sure, and one that the UK has been trying to make an impact on for decades with little success. Promoting it as an alterative to vaccination (which I have seen some posters do), makes no sense.

[quote Itsnotover]@bumbleymummy you seem fixated on the idea that most people who die from covid are obese.

Unfortunately that's not the full picture because there are other things that make people vulnerable. I keep hearing about slim people who died from covid. In the us and the uk.[/quote]
No, most people who die from COVID are elderly. Most people who end up in critical care are overweight or obese.

(Please note: most, not all)

I know I've been on mumsnet when I can spot us4them users.

My point is that some younger people do die but not enough is known why yet.

Elderly people are always going to have the worst outcomes but what's your point about that? Their lives aren't unimportant because they're elderly. And I wouldn't want to be playing a lottery and not knowing if I was going to be one of the unlucky younger ones.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/25/seriously-ill-young-people-in-current-covid-admissions-expert-warns

''We are seeing patients in their 30s, or even in their 20s, who are fit and have no other medical problems on ICUs [intensive care units]. As an ICU doctor I am begging you to have the vaccine. Please don’t let not having the jab become the biggest mistake of your life.”

I keep hearing that if you're vacinnated you're less likely to pass on covid but I'm yet to find out where the data to back that up comes from. I haven't heard of any studies into this. I have heard about studies into natural immunity all of which have concluded that natural immunity is at least as good as vacinne immunity and probably better in terms of adaptability to different variants. Google the latest Israeli Study Which followed 2.5 million people. Therefore if your son has had covid (you can do fairly cheap antibody tests) there shouldn't be any need for a vacinne.

@Aishah231

I keep hearing that if you're vacinnated you're less likely to pass on covid but I'm yet to find out where the data to back that up comes from. I haven't heard of any studies into this. I have heard about studies into natural immunity all of which have concluded that natural immunity is at least as good as vacinne immunity and probably better in terms of adaptability to different variants. Google the latest Israeli Study Which followed 2.5 million people. Therefore if your son has had covid (you can do fairly cheap antibody tests) there shouldn't be any need for a vacinne.

Here you go

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

Good summary with plenty of data given and a big list of studies from various countries at the very bottom so you can check out the original studies themselves.

@Itsnotover

Elderly people are always going to have the worst outcomes but what's your point about that? Their lives aren't unimportant because they're elderly. And I wouldn't want to be playing a lottery and not knowing if I was going to be one of the unlucky younger ones.

I didn’t say their lives are unimportant - just that they are the most likely to die from the virus. You said that I thought most people who die from covid are overweight so I was correcting you.

I’m sure there are some younger, healthier people in icu but the vast majority are overweight/obese, according to the data.

I’m sure there are some younger, healthier people in icu but the vast majority are overweight/obese, according to the data.

The vast majority are also unvaccinated.

Perhaps if they knew that they were at higher risk because of their BMI, they would have chosen to have the vaccine.

I think it's a little unfair to say that parents are ignoring the experts - the experts are divided as to whether this vaccine is beneficial for our children. I'm still a bit concerned about effects on menstrual cycle which the experts either didn't know about or didn't share.
I'm very pro vaccination, but I don't think it's unreasonable to have some questions/doubts because this isn't long term tested and these are our children

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

But no vaccines are 'long term tested'

I had vaccines for polio, TB, measles, mumps and rubella and I'm 47 and know that they haven't harmed me. Those vaccines have been given to my children. So they are more long term tested than the Covid jab. Now, that's not to say that I don't deeply appreciate the Covid Vax and have had both of mine. I will probably give it to my teenager but I think it is fair to say that we are still discovering potential effects we didn't know about, whereas for other childhood vaccinations we do know all potential effects.

The long term effects of having covid are also not known because it's a new virus. I personally would prefer to take my chances with the vaccine than the virus which can cause mental health problems, diabetes and cause damage to internal organs.

There are people that have bad reactions to the vaccines you mention that you've had. Vaccine damage does happen but it's about weighing up the risks.

I think it is fair to say that we are still discovering potential effects we didn't know about, whereas for other childhood vaccinations we do know all potential effects.

But we do have so much data about it already. If there are any unknown potential side effects, we would have heard about it already since so many children have been vaccinated in other countries. And I don't believe there are any side effects that happens years later, since the vaccine won't stay in body forever. Side effects are to do with your own immune responce, except for the allergic reaction to ingredients.
So I really can't understand why people are so sceptical about covid vaccine, while I assume most parents vaccinated their children against many childhood disease without thinking.

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously, you say you are vaccinated against many illnesses, how many of them had years of evidence when you have been vaccinated? You are still well, along with many others, right?
We do know potential side effects of covid vaccine now, since it has been rolled out in mass scale, unlike other vaccines.

@MaxNormal

Here's the FDA committee - go to four hours thirteen minutes and have a listen.

Bloody hell! That's shocking. Everyone should listen!

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

I had vaccines for polio, TB, measles, mumps and rubella and I'm 47 and know that they haven't harmed me. Those vaccines have been given to my children. So they are more long term tested than the Covid jab. Now, that's not to say that I don't deeply appreciate the Covid Vax and have had both of mine. I will probably give it to my teenager but I think it is fair to say that we are still discovering potential effects we didn't know about, whereas for other childhood vaccinations we do know all potential effects.

We have longer term data on the virus than the vaccine though. And that data shows that children usually have if mildly, with no long term effects.

Tbh, I don't know how much was known about my childhood vaccinations when I had them - that was my parents job to research. But yes, they will have grown up seeing the devastation of childhood illnesses and concluded benefit outweighed risk. Wrt Covid we don't know about effects on children since roll out to kids is relatively recent and we aren't yet sure of Covid risk. That's not to say I think the Vax is harmful, only that I am nervous about effect on menstrual cycle which is still emerging as a potential consideration. Initially these vaccines were passed without clot risk being known either.
For adults I absolutely believe vaccination is the way to go, I'm just a bit in the fence at the moment re children.

@Itsnotover

As far as I can see, Pfizer is safe for 16 year olds so it should also be safe for 12 year olds.

12 is the point at which people can take adult medicines.

Bumbleymummy I don't think your views on this topic are going to be balanced because you're skeptical about all vaccines.

"12 is the point at which people can take adult medication." Maybe so but given school children were accused of being the super spreaders of Covid from the start! Many school children having had Covid (asymptomatically), will have broad spectrum immunity which will attack the whole virus (and variants), as opposed to specific immunity from the vaccine which focuses on just the spike protein. This means boosters will be needed. The simple fact of giving just ONE dose (madness) means teen bodies will be the ideal training ground for the virus to learn how to get around a sub optimally protected body. Why is no one talking about vaccine escape. Hell, why is no one talking about VAED. One the clinical trails official website (do your own research). It clearly states ALL doses are 'Experimental', yes there in black and white. Ans it clearly states trial end in MAY 2023. Why were we all constantly reminded 'we MUST have both jabs' but now if's absolutely fine to just have one, when it's not. Do you own research and do what's right for your family. Do not allow yourself to be pressured, ridiculed or manipulated because you don't want to unnecessarily medicate your child. If you have a child who is vulnerable then the reward may far outweigh the risk. I always remember that no trials are done on volunteers that are not 'healthy'. It bothers me but I'm sure many will be fine with that fact.

Here are just a few links to get you started. I expect to be flamed as it is now a regular occurrence for anyone who hesitates.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/hospitals#hospital-admissions-by-age

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study

fullfact.org/health/covid-19-vaccines/

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X21000943

One jab is going to do very little going by the 'science.' Vaccine Escape with just one jab is high with just one jab, going by the Science. The risk of Myocarditis, especially in healthy boys is 6 fold if they have a second jab which is why they are promoting just one. We are setting ourselves up to fail with contradicting advice. Time will watch it all unfold like a slow car crash. Why are they just not testing for titres instead of trying to vaccinate all the children which have more than likely had Covid asymptomatically. Many of our Super Spreaders (school age children) from last year will still have broad spectrum immunity from natural infection, says the Science.

Surely a simple antibody test would be easier for our children and less risky than trying to vaccinate the whole world, (or should I say the UK as we don't really care about the rest of the world being protected).

@beentoldcomputersaysno

I know I've been on mumsnet when I can spot us4them users.

Yeah, me too.

The vaccines are NOT experimental. Stop lying.