Tell me why my son of 14 should have the covid jab?

[Notagoodtime]

This is not a antivax question. My husband and I are double jabbed. I am currently in bed with COVID. My reason for wanting my kids to have the jab was to protect others. As I seem to know lots of people at the moment who are double jabbed and have or have had covid this reasoning isn’t really valid. If we are being are being told that kids get the virus mildly what are the reasons? If my son could still get covid it doesn’t really make feel more confident about him spreading it to the vulnerable. I’m trying to get my head around the advantages before I make a decision. I’m glad I have had the vaccine as I still feel rubbish so dread to think how I would be without but surely this isn’t the same for kids?

Hi,
Yes I understood that but if you look at the data you can see that deaths in 1-19 year olds haven't risen with Delta. They have stayed pretty consistently low throughout the last 18 months accounting for 59 deaths in a hospital setting since March 2020.

Sorry I didn't mean that more people up to 19 are dying I meant people aged 40+ I haven't explained myself well.

My view is coming from children getting vaccinated so their parents don't catch it.

@ADreadedSunnyDay

This is an odd thread. OP it is OK to discuss vaccination with your DS and for him not to go ahead at this point. Jury's out for me re benefit of vaccinating 12-15 year olds to be honest based on JCVI. No reason not to wait if you want to.

I think long Covid is a bit of a red herring - taking a while to recover from a virus is nothing new and a lot of the long covid research is that it's self reported and hard to differentiate if the symptoms are actually caused by covid rather than something else.

Second para. Adverse reactions to the vaccines which are also self reported, so may also be a red herring.

Between a rock and hard place really.

@Megistotherium

PingusLittleSister, but the vaccine is for prevention of illness. And it's clear that the case of adverse reaction is still very rare for 12+, from data from other countries. So what's different from getting vaccinated for mmr to prevent measles? Many people won't die either. If you can prevent getting seriously ill or minimise the spreading, getting vaccinated is no brainer, no?

Whether the vaccine does much to minimise transmission I think you will agree is a moot point on mumsnet and not something I'm prepared to get into

Looking at the NHS data I would say getting vaccinated if you are over 60 is a really good idea. If you are under 59 then it really looks like there is less benefit for preventing serious illness/death as you are much less likely to die anyway, but there is undoubtedly some benefit.

Once you get to the 2 younger age groups and especially the under 19's, I agree with the JCVI and personally wouldn't but I can understand why some parents would want to vaccinate and I would never criticise them for doing so.

@Itsnotover

*Hi, Yes I understood that but if you look at the data you can see that deaths in 1-19 year olds haven't risen with Delta. They have stayed pretty consistently low throughout the last 18 months accounting for 59 deaths in a hospital setting since March 2020.*

Sorry I didn't mean that more people up to 19 are dying I meant people aged 40+ I haven't explained myself well.

My view is coming from children getting vaccinated so their parents don't catch it.

Ah, I see sorry I misunderstood. But if the parents are vaccinated as the vast majority who want to be then surely they are protected if their children catch covid?

gamerchick, I am but for all 3 of my sons!

Yes, doctors do say that the vast majority of people in ICU are unvaccinated according to a recent guardian article but it does also say that more younger people are needing hospital treatment than before, even those in their 20s sometimes.

Read the info make a choice
Simple

I suppose in my case, my 17 year old had it with no ill effects so why would my 12 year old be so different? She's only 5 years younger.

She seems very keen to have it but I did tell her it's completely her choice. I just can't see why I'd worry about the side effects for her if my 17 year old had none 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Lulu1919 can you link to "the info" as there is a lot all with varying degrees of truth and evidence behind it which "info" are we supposed to believe.

The jab reduces the like hood of catching it, reduces how ill you are most people and reduces the chances of passing it on too.

They aren't 100% effective but the more people who have it the smaller the transmission.

Ultimately though you need to be happy with him having it and he needs to want it.

@Itsnotover

Yes, doctors do say that the vast majority of people in ICU are unvaccinated according to a recent guardian article but it does also say that more younger people are needing hospital treatment than before, even those in their 20s sometimes.

And, as I pointed out earlier, most are overweight or obese. Why keep focussing on vaccine status when doing something about the obesity epidemic in the U.K. could have much longer term benefits for the NHS.

And, as I pointed out earlier, most are overweight or obese. Why keep focussing on vaccine status when doing something about the obesity epidemic in the U.K. could have much longer term benefits for the NHS.

How is it possible to know that most of them are overweight?

A man of 41 who was a gym goer and not at all overweight died of covid a few weeks ago having gone to Wembley (unvaccinated) near me.

In addition, you can't just solve obesity overnight. It's much easier to get a shot than it is to address years of a psychological issue relating to food. You may have noticed that the government have spent years trying to make people healthier.

You can talk about trends. But every single day, there are stories about people dying of covid who don't fit the trend of overweight or pre existing health conditions. This woman was only 40 and slim. Who wants to take the chance that they'll be that person?

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/covid-vaccine-denier-mum-who-25038669.amp

It seems that there are risk factors that haven't been identified yet.

Every single person that has the covid vaccine contributes to general herd immunity that protects the elderly and vulnerable. Imagine everybody in the country standing outside in the rain. Everybody who has been vaccinated puts up an umbrella, the more umbrellas that are up the fewer people get wet, and some cover people who don't have umbrellas.

That's why.

Well I think the idea is that miraculously the jab improves mental health - hurrah that the government cares about that all of a sudden - and it will stop school disruption, which of course it won't because the government has spent millions buying tests which by the manufacturers own admission are not fit for the purpose for which they're being used, and if you stick enough tests up enough noses, you'll find viruses. That's one of the jobs of a nose: to stop viruses going further. So the JCVI did not endorse the government's decision, the government reasons are utter nonsense, the vaccine does not stop infection or transmission,and there is no even medium term safety data yet. There are therefore a panoply of reasons for following the JCVI s advice.

@rhonddacynontaf

Every single person that has the covid vaccine contributes to general herd immunity that protects the elderly and vulnerable. Imagine everybody in the country standing outside in the rain. Everybody who has been vaccinated puts up an umbrella, the more umbrellas that are up the fewer people get wet, and some cover people who don't have umbrellas.

That's why.

Beautiful analogy.

Well my screwy autistic brain is very good at metaphors @Megistotherium - they're how I make sense of the world.

@Itsnotover

And, as I pointed out earlier, most are overweight or obese. Why keep focussing on vaccine status when doing something about the obesity epidemic in the U.K. could have much longer term benefits for the NHS.

How is it possible to know that most of them are overweight?

A man of 41 who was a gym goer and not at all overweight died of covid a few weeks ago having gone to Wembley (unvaccinated) near me.

In addition, you can't just solve obesity overnight. It's much easier to get a shot than it is to address years of a psychological issue relating to food. You may have noticed that the government have spent years trying to make people healthier.

There are audits that show the patient characteristics of patients in critical care and it includes BMI.

Perhaps these people would have been more inclined to be vaccinated if they knew they were more at risk. They may have thought that if they were young they’d be ok. And people also seem to have a skewed idea about what a ‘healthy weight’ is these days too.

@rhonddacynontaf

Every single person that has the covid vaccine contributes to general herd immunity that protects the elderly and vulnerable. Imagine everybody in the country standing outside in the rain. Everybody who has been vaccinated puts up an umbrella, the more umbrellas that are up the fewer people get wet, and some cover people who don't have umbrellas.

That's why.

Most of the teens already have ‘umbrellas’ because they’ve had the virus.

@Itsnotover

You can talk about trends. But every single day, there are stories about people dying of covid who don't fit the trend of overweight or pre existing health conditions. This woman was only 40 and slim. Who wants to take the chance that they'll be that person?

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/covid-vaccine-denier-mum-who-25038669.amp

It seems that there are risk factors that haven't been identified yet.

That's very, very sad for her and her family.

These unvaccinated people who appear in the media after dying all seem to be rabid anti vaxxers - like this lady, not what I'd call 'average people on the street'.

None of the deaths seem to be in people who didn't have the vaccine because they'd previously had covid and didn't think it necessary or just thought, no its not for me without making a song and dance about it.

Presumably the families of more measured people don't think of going to the press after the death of a relative?

@bumbleymummy

Most of the teens already have ‘umbrellas’ because they’ve had the virus.

There have been just over 7.5 million confirmed covid cases in the UK. Not sure how many of those were in teenagers, but I certainly don't think it lines up with the guess that 'most' teens have already had covid.

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@bumbleymummy

Most of the teens already have ‘umbrellas’ because they’ve had the virus.

There have been just over 7.5 million confirmed covid cases in the UK. Not sure how many of those were in teenagers, but I certainly don't think it lines up with the guess that 'most' teens have already had covid.[/quote]
And also we have no way of knowing who has had COVID and who hasn't.

Anyone wondering why their teenage child ought to have a vaccine might like to listen to the comments of Chris Whitty and JVT this afternoon.

(I've just posted some chunks of it on the data thread)

e.g.

"About half of children have already had Covid-19 and the rest are more likely to get it without a vaccine, England’s chief medical officer has suggested.

Prof Chris Whitty warned that “quite a lot of damage” could still occur over the winter months.

He told MPs: “Let’s make an assumption that the great majority of children who’ve not currently had Covid-19 are going to get it at some point over the next period.

“It won’t be necessarily in the next two or three months but they will get it sooner or later.”

But addressing the Commons education committee, Whitty added: “Vaccination will reduce that risk.”

England’s chief medical officer was facing questions from MPs about the inclusion of children in the government’s Covid-19 vaccination programme.

When asked what proportion of children had already had Covid-19, he replied: “It varies by age and it does also vary by setting, but I think if we go for roughly half I think that is a reasonable stab at this.

“That’s half over the period of the entire epidemic to date, and we’ve got quite a way to run.

“We’re running into winter so there’s still quite a lot of damage that could be done in terms of disruption.”

England’s deputy chief medical officer Prof Jonathan Van-Tam added that because the Delta variant is so infectious “we are not looking at a theoretical risk” of children aged 12 to 17 becoming infected.

He said: “I think it is really quite inevitable that they will be so at some point.”

Prof Van-Tam warned that these pupils could become infected during their GCSEs and A-levels when it is “extremely inconvenient to be laid low” with a cough, fever, and respiratory symptoms."

Problem is we never really know about the health status of the people who have sadly died from Covid - and their families may not know either. Nor do we know if they accessed health care in a timely fashion - sadly people with respiratory illness can deteriorate really fast.

But @bumbleymummy makes a good point - we know that being overweight / obese is a risk factor for Covid and one that we could actually do something about / support people to take responsibility for. I would prefer we stopped spending money into lateral flow tests and actually supported people properly to make healthy lifestyle changes.