Everyone taking foreign holidays in October half term is surely a recipe for disaster?

[Poetrypatty]

Can't see why the newspapers are pushing it and the change in policy about the tests, because to my mind if loads of people travel in October returning without tests for the half term lead up to Christmas, surely there's less chance of a normal Christmas?

Having read all these replies then it seems I'm worried about nothing. It's a good point that other countries have got lower case rates. I one hundred percent agree we all need a holiday, that's for sure.

What I don't really get is this - why did we have these restrictions all summer, pcr tests etc, when people could have travelled over the course of quite a few weeks, then send schools back which will make cases go up, then encourage everyone to go away the same week in October, knowing cases will go up in the autumn anyway, and get rid of pcr tests then.

As you've said though, maybe regulations will be more abroad and more people will be outside if it's warmer - although how many countries are that warm in October holidays?

It just seems to me an odd time to ditch the pcr tests, they might as well have done this in the summer. We are going to get massive queues in airports surely. But as pp said I'm perhaps stuck in a February 2020 mindset and let's hope the vaccines will do the trick.

I thought the reason we all had the vaccine was to allow life to return to normal.

@Poetrypatty

Having read all these replies then it seems I'm worried about nothing. It's a good point that other countries have got lower case rates. I one hundred percent agree we all need a holiday, that's for sure.

What I don't really get is this - why did we have these restrictions all summer, pcr tests etc, when people could have travelled over the course of quite a few weeks, then send schools back which will make cases go up, then encourage everyone to go away the same week in October, knowing cases will go up in the autumn anyway, and get rid of pcr tests then.

As you've said though, maybe regulations will be more abroad and more people will be outside if it's warmer - although how many countries are that warm in October holidays?

It just seems to me an odd time to ditch the pcr tests, they might as well have done this in the summer. We are going to get massive queues in airports surely. But as pp said I'm perhaps stuck in a February 2020 mindset and let's hope the vaccines will do the trick.

Not everyone had been offered their second vaccine in the summer, I've only just had my second yesterday. They probably wanted to wait until as many people had the vaccine as possible.

We were clear to not give too many advantages of being vaccinated before everyone could be vaccinated that was the main reason. Basically letting pensioners travel and not young people when young people only stayed at home to protect pensioners was seen as unfair they can change as all adults can be fully vaccinated

[quote EasterIssland]@Geamhradh yeah the test back to the uk is what is being dropped off for fully vaccinated.

Europeans if fully vaccinated didn’t need tests to travel around europe this summer , my point is that if traveling was so bad we’d have seen Europe’s numbers going quite high up which hasn’t.[/quote]
Because there is still mask wearing and social distancing plus Pass requirements to be inside restaurants, museums, trains etc maybe.

They still have parties and family get together where it’s much easier for the virus to move around

Ive been twice to Spain this year (where I’m from) and I’d not say what I’ve seen much wearing differs much from what I see in the uk tbh

@Poetrypatty

Having read all these replies then it seems I'm worried about nothing. It's a good point that other countries have got lower case rates. I one hundred percent agree we all need a holiday, that's for sure.

What I don't really get is this - why did we have these restrictions all summer, pcr tests etc, when people could have travelled over the course of quite a few weeks, then send schools back which will make cases go up, then encourage everyone to go away the same week in October, knowing cases will go up in the autumn anyway, and get rid of pcr tests then.

As you've said though, maybe regulations will be more abroad and more people will be outside if it's warmer - although how many countries are that warm in October holidays?

It just seems to me an odd time to ditch the pcr tests, they might as well have done this in the summer. We are going to get massive queues in airports surely. But as pp said I'm perhaps stuck in a February 2020 mindset and let's hope the vaccines will do the trick.

I think it will be mainly OK because as we've said, Brits will be able to travel without testing, but they'll (for example) have to wear masks in museums and on public transport once they get to their destination. Plus many shops still have limited numbers allowed in at a time etc.

I wonder where non vaccinated teens will fit in? I suppose they'll have to do what ours did before being vaccinated and do tests once in situ

The return test (done abroad) may have been scrapped by the UK but as said before, that test is to get you onto a plane in the other country who may still insist on it anyway. There's always been the anomaly betwrrn the UK gov saying that test can be done 72 hours before departure but in Spain and Italy it has to be 48 hours or less.

@EasterIssland

They still have parties and family get together where it’s much easier for the virus to move around

Ive been twice to Spain this year (where I’m from) and I’d not say what I’ve seen much wearing differs much from what I see in the uk tbh

You don't think mask wearing in Spain is better than in the UK? Really? Unless that was a typo?

I'm also Spanish and have been there this summer (as well as in another 7 European countries) and everyone wears masks in Spain where it is mandated - shops, public transport, crowded outdoor spaces (touristy beaches etc), museums, concert halls, schools from the age of 6.

In the meantime, public transport in the UK is full of people who aren't wearing a mask, no one challenges you if you want to enter a shop unmasked (unlike in Spain), children don't wear masks in schools and my teacher friends are actively discouraged to wear one either. Some of which make sense, other not so much.

Yes, people have been allowed to see their families and friends throughout the pandemic in Spain. Because restricting human contact for over 6 months is barbaric and has little consequence on case numbers if you already have other solid measures in place.

I have single friends in the UK who weren't legally allowed to form bubbles or spend time with their long-term partners, because both parties were living in house shares. People went through bereavements, cancer diagnosis, mental breakdowns - and were constantly being told not to meet their loved ones for support. The amount of people who 'obeyed' was unbelievable.

Spain, France, and a long list of other countries managed to:

a) keep schools open all winter
b) allow people to use their discretion when deciding to meet indoors with their families

Their deaths during the winter have been similar to the UK's - or even lower. Most people I know weren't meeting indoors with others anyway, but the option was there for when they needed it.

You’ll still need a negative test to travel back minimum . Watch the requirements if your destination country.

I’ve just flown back from Spain. The lateral flow to return was a laugh for €40 - swab placed on nostril - prepped self for brain drilling - nothing -that was it. Quick dip in the stuff. No “ bash andsqueeze “ and then all the liquid bunged on the slide not “ 2drops “ she didn’t even put the stopper in!

No one will complain as they want that negative result but really 😡😱😡😂

What a surprise

I will be having a normal Christmas come what may. If music festivals and football matches can go ahead, I will not stop seeing my family at Christmas. I will not be travelling abroad for the moment, only because I have a fear of getting stranded and I also think it's going to be chaotic, everyone will rush to book as soon as they can. I don't see the point in holidaying abroad and having the same restrictions as here. Having to pre-book places of interest and then wear a mask for hours on end in a hot country- not for me. I suppose you could go and look at the rioting in some of the major cities, not for me either. Im really not sure that all this isn't about money but do understand the travel industry needs to recover. People need to make their own choices. I am glad people will be able to visit family and friends abroad. It's only my opinion here and I know folk won't agree but since my country are talking about bringing in the Armed Forces as our hospitals and ambulance service are in crisis, surely it's madness for people to be travelling? I welcome considered discussion- no nastiness please.

I meant travelling abroad, not travelling in the UK.

surely it's madness for people to be travelling?

Why do you think so?

I have some friends visiting me in Germany in a few weeks. They will need to:

Be fully vaccinated.
Upload proof of their vaccination status to the German travel portal, where authorities check their validity and confirm they can avoid quarantine (as the UK is a risk area here).
Wear a mask at the airport in England and during the flight.
Wear an FFP2 mask whenever they use a bus, train or go into a shop in Germany.
Wear an FFP2 mask for the duration of the concerts and events we're all attending together. Ditto museums. Ditto everyone else they come into contact with at those places.
Show their vaccination status every time they enter a concert venue, museum or restaurant. These will be checked against their IDs, not just looked at.
Show their vaccination status and/or negative tests at the airport before flying back to England.
Take a PCR test within 2 days of arriving back home.

Their local incidence at home is 300. Local incidence of our city here in Germany is 70. Both UK and Germany have similar vaccination rates (66% vs 63%).

Now compare that to what a normal week back home for them involves.

One of them is a peripatetic teacher coming into contact with over 300 kids each week. He is not allowed by his head to wear a mask in school, none of the kids are masked.
They go daily on public transport, into shops, into venues for work where about half the people aren't wearing a mask. Or they have a useless bit of cloth on. They are also not testing themselves or having to provide their vaccine status to anyone, nor do those around them.
They could travel to a UK touristic spot instead. Where the local incidence is 500+.

Now, how is this surely madness? It looks to me that they're actually going to be safer going abroad for a few days, where their chances of catching and spreading Covid are going to be significantly lower than if they stayed at home.

@EileenGC spain also did not allow children out for weeks and yes some schools on france etc did close it was all over here .

Only because I feel we are more likely to take the virus abroad. At the moment my own country is waiting on our armed forces helping the ambulance service. In my own county we have a spike in cases. Germany has always been much more efficient than many countries, I hear what you are saying.

Personally I wouldn't want to go abroad though as wearing a mask in the heat , booking tables , wearing a mask on a plane etc is no fun and that is what pits me off, plus chance of testing positive and having to isolate in a tiny apartment in the heat, I think if visiting relatives that would be better but a normal package holiday , not for me at moment
At least a uk holiday if I become unwell I can jump in the car and come home
Plus masks on planes i assume you can remove to eat and drink so surely every time you do this you render the mask useless

@Gothichouse40 what country are you in that the armed forces are being called in ?

[quote worriedatthemoment]@EileenGC spain also did not allow children out for weeks and yes some schools on france etc did close it was all over here .
[/quote]
Yes, in March-April 2020 children weren't allowed out.

Schools in France were closed. For 3 weeks, not close to 3 months like the UK. Ask MNetters in France and they will confirm this for you.

'It was all over here' ought to stop being an argument people use when trying to prove their knowledge of the epidemiological situation in other countries. It was also all over the UK news that Europe was terribly behind with vaccination. Turns out, many countries are now far ahead but of course that's never reported in the news.

I take my information from reputable sources of the respective countries I'm talking about. Not from UK/my own local news provider.

Yawn.

@EileenGC is it compulsory ffp2 in Germany or can be the first cloth you find and “that will do it”. Only asking cuz I’ve seen things that I’m not sure how they can be sold as face masks really. How much are the ffp2 in Germany ? I bought some when I was back at home visiting my family in the pharmacy for 1€ so quite a good price

In the uk I’m yet to find comfy ffp2s that are affordable. I bought some in screwfix and they nearly cause me health problems as their look was so short

@EasterIssland yes FFP2 masks are compulsory and the only accepted masks on public transport and concerts/other events. Children aged 14 and younger are allowed to wear the blue (or other colours) surgical masks.

Some shops are now allowing surgical as well, but it depends on each state and there's no point buying both if you use both public transport and shops. FFP2 are the only ones accepted everywhere, basically.

I can buy them from Lidl for 0.60€ a piece, my local pharmacy sells them in packs of 3 for 2€. But I'm pretty sure there are cheaper ones out there, especially if you buy them in bulk for the whole family.

The government also released videos and other informative material with scientists and medical professionals explaining how to safely reuse them. So most people don't just wear them once, I have a few that I use on rotation and air/disinfect properly between uses.

Worried- Im in Scotland, go look at the Scottish Parliament debates. I believe a formal request has been made for our armed forces to come here and help with the ambulance service. Mr Sarwar ( Labour leader)is quite heated about it. Have a look at the question from Douglas Ross ( Conservative leader).

It's on BBC News website.