Booster Shots

[Daisydoor12]

Just read of BBC news about the booster shots for all over 50s and CEV rolled out from next week either Pfizer and Moderna being used. DM had AZ vaccines back in March/April. People who had AZ are they having Pfizer/Moderna? I can’t see any mention of AZ boosters. DM had awful reaction to AZ (yellow carded and GP involved) don’t think she’ll want to change to a different type of vaccine. Where can I find information on mixing vaccines for booster shot? And having 3 vaccinations? To me it seems the government are “putting all their eggs in the vaccine basket” when it has been proven you can catch and pass-on even with the vaccine.

Egghead There will be data from other countries and from trials - I assume that JCVI have the information to back up their recommendations. Even if it doesn't work for all severely immunocompromised, if it works for some and if it works to boost those who made a little antibody response, then it is something that needs doing.
What else can they do?!

I don't know why they think a third primary dose will generate a response but it's worth a go. I wish there was some information as I have to schedule these injections plus a flu jab a certain number of weeks before my next treatment and time is ticking away.

Yes - I don’t know if they are doing it on an “it’s worth a try” basis or if there is actually data. Hopefully it will help at least some people.

“ I don't know why they think a third primary dose will generate a response but it's worth a go.”

Because a portion of those 500k will be included due to chemotherapy and/or radiotherapy and their immune systems will have recovered after treatment.

I had my jab when considered immunocompromised (chemotherapy). But now my immune system should be almost normal. A third jab will almost certainly work for me.

Fair enough Walker. I hadn't considered the recovering group. Good news if you're doing well :)
My "I don't know why" was more that I don't know what the science is but I suspect it sounded dismissive.

@Walker96

“ I don't know why they think a third primary dose will generate a response but it's worth a go.”

Because a portion of those 500k will be included due to chemotherapy and/or radiotherapy and their immune systems will have recovered after treatment.

I had my jab when considered immunocompromised (chemotherapy). But now my immune system should be almost normal. A third jab will almost certainly work for me.

Oh yes it makes sense for your group. I hope you are doing well.

Some data on the effects of boosters against severe illness in Israel (hope it’s legible).

3rd doses are being given to those severely immuno compromised aged over 12 now started this week in my area in NW all are being offered Pfizer in my area we never got the moderna first time round. Ideally there needs to be an 8 week gap between 2nd and 3rd doses unlikely any 12yo will fall into this category some are just having their 1st never mind a 3rd. This is only for the immuno suppressed person not the whole household.
Booster shots will be offered shortly to the over 50s and front line health and care workers, again likely to be Pfizer regardless of what vax was given initially. However these are to be given only 6 months after the 2nd dose so it will be those who were vaccinated early on in dec/Jan who are contacted first for the booster assuming a 12 week gap between the initial 1st and 2nd vaccine.

You can’t find any information because they haven’t even finished testing the 2 doses yet! This is madness, how do we know it’s safe to get 3 in a short space of time when it seems that the second is when a lot of the issues with the Pfizer and moderna vaccines occur and where is the evidence to support the idea at all?
The only place where booster vaccines are already underway on a large scale is Israel and it’s made no difference to their figures at all.

@Lostinacloud if you are unlucky enough health wise to be offered a 3rd dose then it's not compulsory for you to have it you can decline if you wish

Will you always be able to decline though? That’s the bigger issue. For now it’s a choice but it’s getting harder and harder to choose not to have the first 2 let alone when those are potentially cancelled out and you have to get another one so you can go on holiday or maybe even domestically get into certain venues. Already the case in Israel and Austria. This aspect worries me just as much as the fact nobody seems to have properly tested 3 vaccines in the space of 9 months.

Will you always be able to decline though?

Who knows. I genuinely hope so but I do see where you are coming from, there has definitely been an under current coercion for adults to be double vaccinated. Thankfully I'm not in a vulnerable position where I need to consider my health vs a newish medical procedure, although if I was personally I'd probably just got for it and hope for the best, others might decide otherwise

@Lostinacloud

You can’t find any information because they haven’t even finished testing the 2 doses yet! This is madness, how do we know it’s safe to get 3 in a short space of time when it seems that the second is when a lot of the issues with the Pfizer and moderna vaccines occur and where is the evidence to support the idea at all? The only place where booster vaccines are already underway on a large scale is Israel and it’s made no difference to their figures at all.

I thought this too. I'm sure Isreal used Pfizer for the first two doses which were 3 weeks apart. That's very different from many in the UK (me included) who had AZ at 12 weeks apart. I hope it's safe! 😓

I think it’s a good thing to give booster shots to vulnerable groups but for everyone else?
I’ve been trying to research and for example a report in The Lancet states that current evidence does not appear to show a need for boosting in the general population in which vaccine efficacy against severe disease remains high. That seems to be the consensus in the scientific articles I’ve seen so far.
Just don’t know what to think and don’t feel confident in our politicians who just seem to be winging it most of the time.

The only place where booster vaccines are already underway on a large scale is Israel and it’s made no difference to their figures at all.

Germany and France are giving boosters to 65+ and CV.

America is leaning heavily towards boosters for all, particularly over 30s. They see the health of the US population as an issue of national security.

AZ efficacy reduces as much as to just 50% after a few months. mRNA are more effective. (Also it's not so easy to donate Pfizer to developing countries because of some research limited infrastructure. AZ is easier to store and distribute).

@Lostinacloud

You can’t find any information because they haven’t even finished testing the 2 doses yet! This is madness, how do we know it’s safe to get 3 in a short space of time when it seems that the second is when a lot of the issues with the Pfizer and moderna vaccines occur and where is the evidence to support the idea at all? The only place where booster vaccines are already underway on a large scale is Israel and it’s made no difference to their figures at all.

What do you mean with "haven't finished testing the 2 doses yet"?

All the vaccines currently in use are extensively tested, safe and effective. Millions of people in this country and millions more worldwide have been vaccinated. The myocarditis issue associated with Pfizer and Moderna is extremely rare and generally mild, and even though it's more common after the 2nd dose, there aren't "a lot of issues" in general.

You could turn the question around and ask why wouldn't a 3rd dose be safe if the first 2 are? Most of the people receiving their boosters now got the 2nd dose as early as December 2020 so that's a long gap anyway.

The myocarditis issue associated with Pfizer and Moderna is extremely rare and generally mild, and even though it's more common after the 2nd dose, there aren't "a lot of issues" in general.

Yes it's still rare - and almost always very mild and easily treated. Plus, there's a much bigger risk of getting myocarditis from actual Covid.

Most of the people receiving their boosters now got the 2nd dose as early as December 2020 so that's a long gap anyway.

Yes. It's not really much different to the flu jab, is it. That's an annual need. Remember the Covid vaccines were originally developed before Delta. Now we have that - and other potential new strains. It makes perfect sense to reinforce the defences particularly of the vulnerable (in reality constrained by supply and logistics, but ideally all over 40s + anyone of any age with underlying conditions).

I don’t think it’s a case of whether the booster is safe or not just whether it’s necessary yet. The FDA in the USA are still considering this.
The difference to the flu jab is this is tweaked each year to deal with the predicted new strains but this third jab is just the same as the original and was developed before the delta variant. So perhaps minimal benefit. It’s all relatively new so we just don’t know for sure.
But I am no expert so I could be totally wrong.

You can catch it if you have the vaccine, although you are far less likely to. But only 1% of the deaths that have happened since the vaccine programme have been double vaccinated-so you are still far less likely to die of it. The government would simply not waste the money, otherwise.

@Lostinacloud

You can’t find any information because they haven’t even finished testing the 2 doses yet! This is madness, how do we know it’s safe to get 3 in a short space of time when it seems that the second is when a lot of the issues with the Pfizer and moderna vaccines occur and where is the evidence to support the idea at all? The only place where booster vaccines are already underway on a large scale is Israel and it’s made no difference to their figures at all.

Hospitalisations in Israel started going down 2 weeks after they started rolling out boosters.

@Tinpotspectator

You can catch it if you have the vaccine, although you are far less likely to. But only 1% of the deaths that have happened since the vaccine programme have been double vaccinated-so you are still far less likely to die of it. The government would simply not waste the money, otherwise.

I don’t trust that 1% data as (A) most of it was collected when most people hadn’t been vaccinated and (B) most of it was collected before delta became rampant

@LizzieMacQueen

So mixing vaccines is more effective with the exception of Pfizer followed by AZ ? Okay then. I'm not usually swayed by conspiracy theories but has this anything to do with the surplus of Pfizer vaccines we have as a nation.

Also, if you refuse a booster does that mean one is no longer fully vaccinated for the purposes of travel, isolation & night club entry (Scotland) ?

The study showed combination of AZ or J&J with Pfizer was more effective than the original double AZ or single J&J regimes. The study did not show mixed regime was more effective than double pfizer or double moderna - however I have read a million newspaper articles that suggest it is more effective than double pfizer or double moderna, so I personally blame the media for misleading the public.

@Lostinacloud

You can’t find any information because they haven’t even finished testing the 2 doses yet! This is madness, how do we know it’s safe to get 3 in a short space of time when it seems that the second is when a lot of the issues with the Pfizer and moderna vaccines occur and where is the evidence to support the idea at all? The only place where booster vaccines are already underway on a large scale is Israel and it’s made no difference to their figures at all.

Pfizer is running a clinical trial to test the safety and efficacy of a booster vaccine in 10000 subjects. Results are expected out in October. The resting of the two doses is in the follow up phase now - vaccines aren’t like normal meds, they’re in and out your system quickly so it’s not expected to have any long terms side effects with vaccines.

[quote Wellbythebloodyhell]@Lostinacloud if you are unlucky enough health wise to be offered a 3rd dose then it's not compulsory for you to have it you can decline if you wish[/quote]
I'll be having it as soon as it's offered.

I had AZ. I believe it's a good vaccine.

I believe Pfizer is a good vaccine.

As they in & out of your system pretty quickly, I don't think mixing them is an issue.

I'm ECV & I think any additional protection against Covid is a good thing.

I'm still SD, staying home when I can, getting shopping delivered which is quarantined or wiped, I work with 1 other person (we SD & wear masks) doing LFT's twice weekly etc.

I do need to go to the hospital as an outpatient every 2-3 weeks, masks sanitiser & SD (from everyone except masked medical staff who do need be closer/touch me etc)

It's not 'mixing' vaccines (they're out of your body very quickly) it's having a different vaccination this time. They work slightly differently so should give a slightly different reaction/protection.

Flu jab next week
Booster soon after.

I'm not at 6 months after 2nd vaccine until the end of Oct, so I don't think I'll be offered it before then.