No vaccines for healthy 12-15 Yr olds

[Wellbythebloodyhell]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-will-not-be-recommended-for-healthy-children-aged-12-to-15-government-advisers-say-12398444

Is anyone else glad this potential decision has been taken away? I was very much undecided about vaccinating my older dc and now feel a bit of a weight has been lifted now its not something I need to consider.

I might add a vaccine would not stop my children contracting covid, so even with the vaccine they could still catch the virus. The vaccine is not a silver bullet. As we all now know.

If you were aware of children in your class that have chosen not to be vaccinated, how would you feel about that?

Genuinely fuck-all. Throughout this pandemic we have taught all-comers. Vaccinating kids is going to be a complete car crash (thanks in part to the JCVI abdicating their responsibility to parents, but it was always going to be contentious) so what judgement would there be to make of a child caught up in it?

@Piggywaspushed

The swelling of the heart, as you call myocarditis, is a far more common side effect of covid stepup. Far more. This is the bit I am struggling to grapple with.

If this were a thread about myocarditis as a result of govid, I feel it would be being taken in a completely different direction. It would be being called scaremongering, grips would be offered, and the word minuscule would make an appearance.

Is it far more common in young people with covid? Do you have a source for that?

Tbh, I think lots of kids are keen to be vaccinated. They want to protect their families, themselves, their communities (and even their education!) . I think the majority will get vaccinated, just as they do for everything else frothi. I am not even sure that many will agonise over it. But - if some choose not to, not my business. I have taught many JWs over the years : can't say I view them any differently as children in my classroom because of their family ethics , beliefs , or medical choices. As an example.

You should not be pushing parents one way or another Noble

I'm not....unlike you with your scaremongering posts about thalidomide.

I posted it twice upthread, bumbley. For 12-17 year old boys, myocarditis is seen as a complication of covid for 450 in 1 million cases. For the vaccine , 60.

@Piggywaspushed

Tbh, I think lots of kids are keen to be vaccinated. They want to protect their families, themselves, their communities (and even their education!) . I think the majority will get vaccinated, just as they do for everything else frothi. I am not even sure that many will agonise over it. But - if some choose not to, not my business. I have taught many JWs over the years : can't say I view them any differently as children in my classroom because of their family ethics , beliefs , or medical choices. As an example.

Would you know who had had the vaccine?

Afaik Ds school is unaware. I haven’t paid much attention to that side but we have not sent info.

It was not done in the school though obvs

Thank you for the responses. Like I said, I think the mixed messages and lack of clear data makes it an extremely difficult decision for anyone to make. My oldest is 8 so not something I have to consider (yet) but if i was in that situation at present I wouldn’t have a clue what to do for the best. I’m sure many feel the same way I do. As I said above I’m genuinely surprised anyone can have a clear ‘yes they should’ or ‘no they shouldn’t’ opinion on it, because it’s all such a mess.

I wonder what will happen in situations where teens don’t want the vaccine but their parent does or vice versa the teen does but the parent doesn’t. You can’t assume parents and teens will have the same opinion.
This scenario must have popped up with 16 and 17 year olds although they can give consent without parents input. There were vaccine pop up tents at Reading Festival for example and not a parent in sight.

The outcome for covid acquired myocarditis vs vaccine acquired is also far worse, although it is difficult to tease out co morbidites there.

No, marsha. If it were done in school, I guess we'd see who didn't go.

I am sure plenty who have recently had covid will delay it too. Or have to , because there has to be at least 30 days gap. I might know, therefore, who wasn't having it, but not why. It certainly wouldn't be anywhere in medical notes.

@noblegiraffe

I guess they were working on old assumptions, now the latest data is showing that Long Covid isn’t as prevalent in children as previously thought

Did you previously think that 50% of kids got long covid and are reassured by the suggestion that it's only 1 in 7?

It's amazing what some people will take from a quick read of a headline.

Well, as the study pointed out, there isn’t actually a universally agreed definition of long covid. The version of long covid that parents are probably most concerned about is the one that lasts months and is properly debilitating with long term consequences - 1 in 7 children are not suffering from that version. There’s a big difference between that and a child feeling tired/having a persistent cough etc for 4+ weeks. I think it’s really time they started separating it out a bit more.

Pretty sure the study looked at 15 weeks +.

So you're reassured that 'only' 1 in 7 children feel tired and have a persistent cough for over a month after having covid? That's 'reassuring'?

It's definitely not 4 weeks. Will find it..

It is not like the vaccines are especially long lasting or symptom free. Quite a few of dd's friends have been really ill for days with high fever, severe headaches etc and one needed to go to the hospital for a blood test due to on going severe headaches. It was horrible for her having blood tests at that age and she was really scared. So the idea that it is effortless to get vaccinated is not right either, some children would feel better with actual covid than the some times long lasting and nasty side effects of the vaccine. They are not like normal vaccines that last, it looks likely children will need them year after year.
Again it is for every parent to weigh up. Not for anyone else to take that responsibility.

@stepupandbecounted

I don't feel comfortable with my child being vaccinated with an untested vaccine with no data beware I am very happy to run the risk of long covid. Almost every child we know has had covid, around 45 children, not one has developed long covid and all had a very mild cold at best.

It is unfortunate that in a few rare cases some children may be poorly for longer, but it is very much the minority and not enough for me to play the wild west with my child's health with untested vaccines.

Nor do I think the vaccines will last very long in a child's system, given in older generations the efficacy is already waning after six months.

I know you are keen to vaccinate every kid, for the safety of adults, but I do not approve of the risks we are taking collectively with younger and younger children.

Hi Stepup Let’s take this point by point.

I don't feel comfortable with my child being vaccinated with an untested vaccine with no data beware I am very happy to run the risk of long covid.

So “untested” vaccine* is bad, but a novel, unknown virus whose long term effects are not completely known is all fine and dandy? That doesn’t make sense. Why are you also ignoring my posts about the known long term effects of covid? And the posts showing that the risks of myocarditis are worse from covid than from the vaccine?

*it’s not untested, but this is a common trope put out by antivaxxers.

Almost every child we know has had covid, around 45 children, not one has developed long covid and all had a very mild cold at best.

Irrelevant. 45 children is not a representative sample from the millions in the UK. Do you think the children who are suffering from long covid don’t exist because you don’t know them?

I know you are keen to vaccinate every kid, for the safety of adults

Do you know this? How? Does it say that anywhere in my posts? No. But you’ve assumed that, despite my posts clearly being about the problems my child had due to covid, I want children to be vaccinated to protect adults. How have you come to that conclusion when my posts are clearly child-focused? Are you actually reading what people are writing?

www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/english-study-finds-long-covid-affects-up-1-7-children-months-after-infection-2021-09-01/

Here you go (as a side note, always entertained by the different tone of international vs UK press)

These are symptoms at 15+ weeks, not a month.

Again it is for every parent to weigh up.

As you drop in another doom-laden anecdote. Fascinating.

We also don’t know how much the vaccines protect against long covid.

@Plumbear2
Your 12 year old “has done his research and knows his own mind”? So you think your 12 year old knows better than the JCVI?

You realise that most adults on here that claim to have ‘done their own research’ and come to a different decision re the COVID vaccine are jumped on and told they could not possibly be qualified enough to do that, right?

I find this bit at the end intriguing :

The findings were a pre-print which had not been peer-reviewed. The authors said that any decision to extend vaccination to 12- to 15-year-olds in Britain was unlikely to be based on this study as there was not enough data on whether vaccination protects against long COVID.

And yet, adults were told only this week to get vaccinated because it halves the risk of long covid. Again, I am baffled.

How have you come to that conclusion when my posts are clearly child-focused? Are you actually reading what people are writing?

I think it's pretty obvious what they are doing. It's not only you they're misrepresenting.

And what was the outcome of that blood test? They aren't nice, but it's hardly something she won't have to have again in life. Some of the students I teach have many many blood tests. Having an investigation because of headaches is a good and helpful thing...

@FfrothiCoffi

This is a genuine question for the teachers on this thread (if there are any). If you were aware of children in your class that have chosen not to be vaccinated, how would you feel about that? If it became down to personal choice but many chose not to, would you be happy that it was available and people had made the choice they felt was right for them, or would you feel negatively about those who chose not to be vaccinated?

I'm in Ireland where 12-15s can be vaccinated. Schools haven't asked so the teachers don't know who is or who isn't. Both of my children have friends in this age bracket. I have no idea which of them are vaccinated and who aren't. There is no making pariahs of unvaccinated kids that I know of.