Australia/New Zealand New Thread

[Kokeshi123]

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/

Intrastate travel within Australia is also severely restricted. And the government of South Australia, one of the country’s six states, developed and is now testing an app as Orwellian as any in the free world to enforce its quarantine rules. People in South Australia will be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15 minutes,” Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the home-based quarantine app.”

This is... really really disturbing, honestly.

I grew up admiring (and, let's be honest, envying) Australians because as a nation, they always came across as a down-to-earth, fearless lot who had a healthy skepticism of authority while also being basically very civic/community minded.

What's gone wrong?

Any thoughts about primary school children in Victoria having to wear masks? ( I think it’s year 3 and up). I’m not in Victoria and I’m not a parent but I don’t like it. It’s borderline okay for high school kids but for primary it just seems cruel. Is this going to be a permanent thing? Will kids be allowed to stop wearing masks once vaccines for younger children are approved?

I know I hate wearing a mask as an adult but I don’t have to wear one for hours a day. As a child would have hated it even more. I’m not convinced that the benefits outweigh the harms. Yes, it will be disruptive having children catch Covid but schools will have to cope. Teachers would have well and truly had the opportunity to be vaccinated by the time students return to classrooms.

Are most schools air conditioned these days? A mask in an un air conditioned classroom in summer would be torture.

[quote beingsunny]@Wakeupin2022 yes Gladys 'may' have done wrong, however we now have a premier in her place who is, a trump supporter, anti gay rights, and voted against decriminalisation of abortion in 2019. The future looks very bleak with this religious nut in charge.[/quote]
Sorry I did have to laugh.

I have got really strong opinions in some things and corrupt politicians is one of them. But I don't consider who will replace them 🤣

I'm not in Oz so don't pretend to know anything about him. But from your description it doesn't sound good at all 😢

I’m quite skeptical about this article.
2 reasons, why would anyone want to come to “fortress Australia” 😬 and
Can the UK spare health workers at the moment?
The government may be trying to reassure the public that help is on the way but is it?
apple.news/A9KYUuUNVTq676gz9gi92_A

TBH, I find hand-wringing about masks bemusing. We are all asked to do much harder things all the time, to reflect that we live in a society, and it's in a bit of strife ATM.

Doctors, nurses, surgeons, dentists, paramedics, house painters (to name a few) all manage 8-12 hour shifts in masks.

Most kids - who have adapted very well to "not hat, no play" SunSmart policies - are hardly likely to bat an eyelid, IMO.

It's a global pandemic, with another five dead in Victoria today - remind me, what's cruel? Not doing everything possible to help stop the spread of a virus that preys on the weak and vulnerable seems a heck of a lot meaner to me 🤷🏼‍♀️.

It's not forever - the children's hospital specialist said that yesterday. Just until we get more people vaccinated and slow down the spread of this wretched thing.

(And, yes, I know kids aren't likely to get ill with COVID, but they can definitely spread it to people who might)

With all due respect, I don’t think the no hat, no play policy is comparable to a 9 year old child wearing a mask for 6+ hours per day.

Children will always fiddle with their masks (heck so do adults), they will not be changed as frequently as they should be and I believe it is mostly theatre.
Also take into consideration that the majority of regional schools don’t have covid circulating and you know it’s just for show to reassure parents that something is being done. Much like the air purifiers just purchased that will most likely end up going into libraries and halls as the premier did not purchase enough for every classroom in Victoria.

I don't disagree - they're not particularly comparable policies. My point was more around kids' acceptance of blanket health and safety rules - IMO, most will likely just adapt and move on, it's adults who are more likely to angst over such things.

So are you saying that because children will adapt parents shouldn’t advocate for them?

Where is the data that supports primary age children wearing masks to prevent transmission of delta?

The government must not impose more measures or restrictions for the sake of it. It needs to be a fair and reasonable response to the situation and as I said, I think it’s more for show.

Unfortunately, people become less compliant when the measures are too punitive and when it actually counts people will be less likely to respond to necessary measures. This is showing in Victoria with a high level of restrictions but also a high level of cases, people are rightly well and truly over it.

Is there not any evidence for (or against) the use of masks in schools now? I'm just wondering how the spread of covid in Scottish schools (where masks are worn) compares to England (where they're not)?

It’s not hand wringing about masks. The measures need to actually work though. If it’s imply so politicians can say they are doing something (masks are very visible obvs) it could take the pressure off them to take actions which might work/work better.

Wrt the 2000 health workers going to Aussie - Im sure there will be 2000 people willing to work in fortress Aus if they have no better offers.

Sorry posted too soon. I’m sure at least 2000 people would like to work in aus.

It’s not comparable to hats. For one thing, hats are a health measure that work. Not only that, they’re only used for a small period of time and don’t have a negative impact on the wellbeing of children.

The children in masks in Victoria is yet another Dan Andrew's extreme response, like when he had all the playgrounds closed and removed swings, and put emergency tape all over them.

He backtracked on that, he's spun his 'hard lockdown works' so much, particularly pointing the finger at NSW, and he refuses to see that by asking so much of the poor victorians they stopped complying.

Some pushback but not in the same state.
Where is Matthew Guy, why doesn’t he speak out?
www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/politics/nsw-deputy-premier-says-mask-mandate-for-schoolchildren-is-ludicrous/news-story/ed1f0230b0512350f7dc79f3f736cb05

[quote Kohby190]Some pushback but not in the same state.
Where is Matthew Guy, why doesn’t he speak out?
www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/politics/nsw-deputy-premier-says-mask-mandate-for-schoolchildren-is-ludicrous/news-story/ed1f0230b0512350f7dc79f3f736cb05[/quote]
Good to see some common sense.

It’s going to be stressful enough for some children returning to the classroom without them having to deal with masks as well. Teachers will be vaccinated and Primary School children are generally only mildly ill so it seems like overkill to me.

I also worry that all this obsessing over children not getting sick at all is going to to possibly have negative impacts on their immune systems.

I’m not in Victoria and I’m not a parent but I don’t like it

Just in it for the lolz then? Or something a little more complex - like a looming election?

What if people don't have a smartphone? Or their camera is broken? Or they're in the bath?

Ridiculous!

Schools in Auckland not re-opening next week. That will be 10 weeks shut. Minimum. I don’t think they will re-open until next year.
Modellers telling us not to plan summer holidays.
Meanwhile the world moves on and NSW is reopening.

@Gennz18

Schools in Auckland not re-opening next week. That will be 10 weeks shut. Minimum. I don’t think they will re-open until next year. Modellers telling us not to plan summer holidays. Meanwhile the world moves on and NSW is reopening.

I feel for you.

Is there anything worse than being in a city or state that has lost the plot re Covid and has no plan to rejoin the rest of the world? Poor kids being denied a proper education and socialisation for a virus that poses little risk to them.

I’m in Adelaide and plenty of people here don’t want the borders to open. Now the government is saying we’ll still have to quarantine, even if fully vaccinated, if we travel to Victoria, NSW or Canberra for Christmas

The thing about Australia is at least you can at least move states if your state continues to be too cautious. Only problem for me is the state I’m thinking of moving to is Tasmania and they’re probably just as bad a South Australia...

What baffles me is that the rest of
NZ seems to think Delta can be “contained” in Auckland. I mean sure, that hasn’t worked anywhere else in the world but we’ll be the exception …

@Gennz18

What baffles me is that the rest of NZ seems to think Delta can be “contained” in Auckland. I mean sure, that hasn’t worked anywhere else in the world but we’ll be the exception …

There’s people on Reddit calling for border controls.

We know here in Australia that once you close a border to ‘keep Covid out’ it’s almost impossible to open it again and let the virus spread without a huge public outcry. You don’t want a divided country like we have in Australia (not now there is a vaccine). I feel like we’ve lost some of our humanity because of it

Is there anything worse than being in a city or state that has lost the plot re Covid and has no plan to rejoin the rest of the world?

I don't know about worse, but all the Kiwis living outside NZ who are effectively barred from returning home to visit our families (and having these visits derided as "summer holidays" or "Christmas holidays", as if it's somehow sinful and wrong to visit family during NZ summer and to go home for Christmas ). Well, that's been pretty heartbreaking for 1 million Kiwis outside NZ, as well as their families inside NZ.

And I don't use the word "hearbreaking" lightly.

It is having a huge impact on people everywhere. DS has been in Sydney for two and a half years - we've had 8 flights cancelled, and he obviously hasn't been able to get back to see us. Although NSW is opening borders in November/December, it's only for Aussies or those with PR - those with work visas cannot leave the country. DS is coping - he is pretty strong - but the impact of not seeing his parents or his 'oldies' is weighing on him, and from what he says, on many of his expat friends too. But at least he's been safe from Covid whilst there!

The rest of the world (and NSW) has had to go through a lot of shit to get to the point of reopening. We in NZ are just embarking on that journey. I agree a lot of people in NZ still have their heads in the sand if they think this will be contained in Auckland. Sadly I think schools in Auckland won't reopen until next year. It would have been insane to open them next week at least. My theory is that they are planning to get the worst of this exit wave done through the summer months which actually makes sense on several counts. I think it might be a bit early for the beginning of the new term in February but certainly by March we could be "living with it" like the rest of the world. Just my theory based on nothing scientific, just looking at the experience of other countries. So yes, I think our summer is fucked but on the plus side I am hopeful we will be able to have a summer holiday with family in Europe next year. MIQ for returning travellers is already looking pretty redundant to me when we have cases all over Auckland and will be even more pointless once we have spread around the country.

I am hopeful we will be able to have a summer holiday with family

Don't let the government hear you with that extremist "summer holiday" talk

Looking on the positive side Gennz, Auckland will be out of this mess before the rest of us. Vaccination rates are looking great there, it looks like 90% could be possible. I almost think we need some outbreaks elsewhere now as that sadly seems to be the only thing that will motivate people to go and get vaccinated.