Australia/New Zealand New Thread

[Kokeshi123]

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/

Intrastate travel within Australia is also severely restricted. And the government of South Australia, one of the country’s six states, developed and is now testing an app as Orwellian as any in the free world to enforce its quarantine rules. People in South Australia will be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15 minutes,” Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the home-based quarantine app.”

This is... really really disturbing, honestly.

I grew up admiring (and, let's be honest, envying) Australians because as a nation, they always came across as a down-to-earth, fearless lot who had a healthy skepticism of authority while also being basically very civic/community minded.

What's gone wrong?

Agree with you @Cousinit on all counts. FML 😰😂

My mum is a (double vaxxed) primary school teacher and no one has asked her about her vaccination status. They can’t send teachers and kids back to school when they have not data on who is and isn’t vaccinated and haven’t carried out basic H&S obligations as employers.

My work started this process 6 weeks ago envisaging that a return to work while the outbreak was ongoing might be required.

I think high school might go back this year as 12+ can be vaxxed and much more urgent for older kids to be properly educated!!!

Agree MIQ is fucked on multiple levels but especially once the Govt finally cedes control
Of their moronic testing regime

I live in WA, one of those states that isn't in any rush and I'm perfectly happy about it, as are most people I know. Yes we are making sacrifices, my husband doesn't know if he we will be able to travel in time to see his terminally ill brother for a start. But we have enjoyed the benefits of living largely Covid free for the last eighteen months and see the benefits of the border staying closed until most people are vaccinated. This also protects the indigenous people and the ever important mining revenue. Personally I would like to re-open at as close to 90% vaxxed as we can get, as I've looked at the modelling figures and below that amount they are pretty scary. The hospitals aren't coping here as it is, even without Covid! Anyway, we are hoping that things here will start to open up again internationally by April onwards, but this Xmas we are happy to holiday at home.

I wonder if people are aware (I wasn’t till last night) just how few children have sadly died from covid in Britain in 2020. It’s 25 according to study reported on bbc news website, 15 of whom had life limiting conditions. The majority of that year there were no available treatments for covid. Waiting till kids are vaccinated to give them a decent education is boarderline criminal imo.

I completely agree now newstart. Although when we had our first lockdown (england) I shielded and did winder if I'd ever send my kids to school again for my own safety. When you are in the grip of fear I can see why you would think its reasonable.

Since having covid and now double vaxed, and as soon as the vulnerable were doubke vaxed I changed completely. And yes become so aware of the damage being out of school was doing to children all over. So much hidden damage too from families that werent coping/ overcrowded/unsafe/ unable to homeschool etc as well as the obvious trauma everyone went through.

Indeed. Across Nz and Aus the vulnerable population including children with life limiting illnesses should have been offered vaccine and kids should be back in school. I don’t think it’s right that people shouldn’t be allowed to see dying relatives even if some people are ok with that. It’s acceptable at the start with no vaccine no treatment no ppe no gene sequencing no data on spread no community tracking etc but how school closures ate acceptable now is beyond my understanding.

For the poster whose son is in aus - has this changed his long term plans living in aus?

Alas to imagine stopping someone dying seeing their loved ones. This is beyond cruel.

@newstart1234

Indeed. Across Nz and Aus the vulnerable population including children with life limiting illnesses should have been offered vaccine and kids should be back in school. I don’t think it’s right that people shouldn’t be allowed to see dying relatives even if some people are ok with that. It’s acceptable at the start with no vaccine no treatment no ppe no gene sequencing no data on spread no community tracking etc but how school closures ate acceptable now is beyond my understanding.

For the poster whose son is in aus - has this changed his long term plans living in aus?

You do know many kids in Australia are in school, and have been for most of the pandemic? NSW and Vic are not the only states, so it isn't really correct to refer to 'across Australia', as every state has had its own approach and experience of the pandemic.

The ‘across Australia’ refers to the vaccine coverage in vulnerable groups not school closures.

School closures should not be acceptable no matter how localised imo. It’s regressive, damaging and unnecessary.

@newstart1234
For the poster whose son is in aus - has this changed his long term plans living in aus?

I don't know - although we miss him dreadfully, it's his life, and he needs to decide where he wants to live it! Originally Aus was a 2-3 year stint, but he's doing well and enjoying life. He is conscious that he has a great work/life balance, and although I think things have changed in the UK in that many people will be in the office for just 2-3 days a week in the foreseeable future, he needs to see if that would work for him.

He has said that many of his friends are a little frustrating at not being able to jump on a plane to get home, and he did say that he will be considering things. But he has just signed another 12 month lease!

Hate not seeing him!

I never thought Australians would be such a bunch of bedwetters.

@FreshFreesias couldn't be that you have a limited understanding of the nature of Australia, the size, diversity and distribution of our population, the varied ways in which each state has responded to and politicised the pandemic and the woeful performance of our Federal government?

@FreshFreesias

I never thought Australians would be such a bunch of bedwetters.

I haven't wet the bed since I was a toddler but crack on with thinking us Aussies are one monolithic group who all thinks and behaves the same as each other.

The rest of the world (and NSW) has had to go through a lot of shit to get to the point of reopening. We in NZ are just embarking on that journey. I agree a lot of people in NZ still have their heads in the sand if they think this will be contained in Auckland.

You're right... Whereas I think NZ has had it right so far, I think the adjustment to "living with it" will cause massive angst as people realise they will need to tolerate quite a lot of community transmission (even if there are high vaccination rates) or otherwise live lots of restrictions they aren't used to. The only advantage of living in the U.K. is that we have been through the months of restrictions, have had a significant proportion of the population contract Covid (thereby having immunity to complement the vaccines) and we're largely past caring if there are cases in our community.

This sums it up for me.
Australia consistently rolls over, we have no fight and no spirit left.
A lot of people don’t agree with the way the government is handling things but most do nothing and say nothing.
I’m feeling so deflated today and sad for my country, sad that we are not really one country anymore. West Australia people gloating as well as Queensland whilst still banning their citizens from returning, Victorians angry and blaming and NSW rushing out to Kmart like it’s the only thing that matters.

Eh? I am in West Australia, and I don't know anyone who is gloating. Most of us feel that we are in a very fortunate position here, and feel concerned for our friends and relatives over east, but I have heard very little gloating (of course there are always some arseholes everywhere).

Yep, I'm also in WA and I don't know anyone who's gloating, just some who are more keen to open up to travel than others who are happy to wait a short while longer if it means opening up with less restrictions (I'm in second camp). If we can delay and limit masks / lockdowns why wouldn't we? And there's still a big country we can travel too, friends are just back from a trip to Tassie and Darwin, had a great time. I also don't know what state the Australian economy would have been if resources had been limited over the past 18 months, which is why I find it so strange this eagerness by other states for us to open. The rhetoric from the federal government and the new NSW premier is definitely not helping though, particularly when its so obviously partisan as Tasmania and South Australia state governments don't seem to be included, despite being in exactly the same position as WA.

Just reading the damning report on the UK's initial Covid response. Chilling.

No more quarantine for NSW if you're double vaccinated from November 1. Not even home quarantine. Hopefully that will make life a bit easier for people returning or visiting.

I figured Perrottet was an uptight economics-focussed type of old-school Catholic Liberal, of the sort that died out decades ago, with some noxious and antiquated views - but he is clearly an absolute lunatic with the turbocharged reopening of NSW and now the complete scrapping of any form of quarantine in a few weeks time. God help our hospitals.

Why is that so bad @milkyaqua

Genuine question, I’m obviously not in Australia so I don’t have a horse in this race. I thought NSW was up at 70% double vaxxed and quarantine easing was only for double vaxxed Australians?

70% vaxxed of people Over 16. That's about 56% of population. Noone from the medical world agrees with letting it rip at this point.

The intensive care wards are already full - and that's while we were still in lockdown. There are swathes of NSW, especially outside the main cities, that are barely at one dose of vaccine still.

I'm on the fence about it. We still have 400 odd cases a day in NSW at the moment but opening up internally to the fully vaccinated and with schools going back so those numbers will go up. Borders will be opening to Vic who still have substantial numbers, and likely still will on the 1st of November. But those coming from overseas will be fully vaxd and with a negative covid test.
Obvious disclaimers about false documents, being infected after the test etc.
But this will obviously keep the internal borders up for a bit longer and many are really struggling with the results of that.

I'm more concerned about the lower vax rates in the regions which needs to be focused on. They had their doses redirected so ended up further behind in the program overall (along with multiple other reasons) and now there will be more pressure from greater Sydney and likely more leaks, even though it's still technically banned.

@spottygymbag

I'm on the fence about it. We still have 400 odd cases a day in NSW at the moment but opening up internally to the fully vaccinated and with schools going back so those numbers will go up. Borders will be opening to Vic who still have substantial numbers, and likely still will on the 1st of November. But those coming from overseas will be fully vaxd and with a negative covid test. Obvious disclaimers about false documents, being infected after the test etc. But this will obviously keep the internal borders up for a bit longer and many are really struggling with the results of that.

I'm more concerned about the lower vax rates in the regions which needs to be focused on. They had their doses redirected so ended up further behind in the program overall (along with multiple other reasons) and now there will be more pressure from greater Sydney and likely more leaks, even though it's still technically banned.

I'm in a regional area where cases are trending upwards, not downwards like the rest of NSW. Opening up at this point does feel odd. At least travel from the Sydney area has been delayed for a couple of weeks - putting the area in further jeopardy, considering our vax rates aren't as high as Sydney.

@spottygymbag

I'm on the fence about it. We still have 400 odd cases a day in NSW at the moment but opening up internally to the fully vaccinated and with schools going back so those numbers will go up. Borders will be opening to Vic who still have substantial numbers, and likely still will on the 1st of November. But those coming from overseas will be fully vaxd and with a negative covid test. Obvious disclaimers about false documents, being infected after the test etc. But this will obviously keep the internal borders up for a bit longer and many are really struggling with the results of that.

I'm more concerned about the lower vax rates in the regions which needs to be focused on. They had their doses redirected so ended up further behind in the program overall (along with multiple other reasons) and now there will be more pressure from greater Sydney and likely more leaks, even though it's still technically banned.

The numbers will go up but not by much. Almost 70% of 12 to 15 y.o have already got the first jab with almost 30% being fully vaccinated. This is a phenomenal considering that until not long ago this age group didn't have access to the vaccine. At the rate we are going, NSW will hit the 80% of fully vaccinated 12-15 group by the end of November.

Regions are a different kettle of fish. Because most regional areas have been able to have a normal life with a few short lockdowns, the taking of the vaccine has been slow. It's similar to what's happening in QLD and WA, states that are at the bottom of the vaccination rate in Australia.

The problem is we can't continue to restrict movement in NSW because people in the regions have become complacent with getting the jab. It's understandable but not a plan for the future. My understanding is that regional NSW is finally getting the message and is getting vaccinated in big numbers - expected to get close to 80% by November.

No country in this world with the vaccination numbers of NSW hasn't opened up. Victoria is closely following NSW, they are behind 2-3 weeks, and these two States are where the majority of the population lives.

The rest of the States better catch up because Australia will be opening up before Christmas.