Australia/New Zealand New Thread

[Kokeshi123]

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/

Intrastate travel within Australia is also severely restricted. And the government of South Australia, one of the country’s six states, developed and is now testing an app as Orwellian as any in the free world to enforce its quarantine rules. People in South Australia will be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15 minutes,” Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the home-based quarantine app.”

This is... really really disturbing, honestly.

I grew up admiring (and, let's be honest, envying) Australians because as a nation, they always came across as a down-to-earth, fearless lot who had a healthy skepticism of authority while also being basically very civic/community minded.

What's gone wrong?

Sounds similar to WA. I think it's probably because there are many people with very small worlds who still live where they grew up and although they may have been overseas it's not that important to them. For those people a simple cost benefit analysis on their own lives means keep it shut out. Obviously that's not possible in the real world but people will always approach things from their own perspective. And it's probably pretty scary to let it in when you don't feel much personal benefit from the opening if you are not currently in lockdown and aren't particularly interested in the rest of the world.

I would never have thought that applied to NZ @thingsarelookingup but certainly there seems to still be a majority of people who want to stay sealed off. We have a population of 5 million, plus 1 million NZers who live outside NZ, lots of immigrant Kiwis with strong ties in other countries, we are heavily dependent in n immigration at every level of our workforce

We were always such an outward looking nation, geographically we had to be. I feel so claustrophobic being locked away from the rest of the world (and I’m a NZer so at least I am home). If we manage to see family in the UK next year it will be over 2 years since we last saw them. And I don’t feel super optimistic that border restrictions will have come off by June 2022.

Apologies if that wasn’t an actual tank in the streets of Melbourne, sure looked like one. And firing at rioters running away, ok might be rubber bullets but Australia is meant to be a democracy not a dictatorship. Anyone trying to minimise police firing bullets at their citizens because they are protesting at an authoritarian response to a virus has lost their moral compass imo. It’s inexcusable.
Peaceful protest is the cornerstone of a democracy and the police should allow it not react with “tank like” vehicles and shooting.
You can disagree with the protest and wish the idiots would just go home but next time it might be the police firing bullets at the crowd at a protest you do support.
And what is it in aid of anyway? It doesn’t make sense as a tactic. It won’t encourage anyone to get vaccinated if anything it’ll entrench their views or even make people distrustful as it feeds into the conspiracy theories about control etc. It also just ramps up the next riot.
It’s a sign those in charge have lost the bigger picture and can’t see the wood for the trees.

@sashagabadon I'll admit to being wrong when I dismissed your report of the tank. I have now seen that you are correct and yes I think it's gone too far. I think it's part of the same idea as what is a stumbling block in NZ that people still have fear and have now hung on to the opening day as safe and everything before as not safe.

Thanks things. Yes it has gone too far. It’s over the top when you look at why the people are rioting/ protesting. People have every right to be furious if the government shut down their industry or whatever.
It looks shocking because it is.
People get used to the scenes like we did of Hong Kong in 2019 and shrug. But it’s not ok.
We had riots here in London last year, a mixture of lockdown, BLM etc and now we have idiots called insulation U.K. blocking roads everywhere but not once would the police here fire bullets at them, horses and riot gear yes. If anything the police were criticised for being too lax at times especially the most recent road blocking protests , the police have been giving them water to drink!

That Twitter feed is quite something - as a Melbournite (well for university)

@Gennz18

I would never have thought that applied to NZ *@thingsarelookingup* but certainly there seems to still be a majority of people who want to stay sealed off. We have a population of 5 million, plus 1 million NZers who live outside NZ, lots of immigrant Kiwis with strong ties in other countries, we are heavily dependent in n immigration at every level of our workforce

We were always such an outward looking nation, geographically we had to be. I feel so claustrophobic being locked away from the rest of the world (and I’m a NZer so at least I am home). If we manage to see family in the UK next year it will be over 2 years since we last saw them. And I don’t feel super optimistic that border restrictions will have come off by June 2022.

I completely agree about feelings claustrophobic. Here in Australia most of us are locked in their state.

Technically I can travel to another state but I know so many people that have had to quarantine after holidaying interstate that I don’t want to risk it right now. The idea of being stuck in South Australia, potentially for years fills me with dread.

I’ve found a perfect job to apply for in Hobart but as much as having a new state to explore would be exciting I’ll have to worry about whether they open up to the rest of the country. Think I’m still going to go for it. I’d reached a real crossroads in my life just before Covid. Been in my job too long and wanting to sell my house due to an awful neighbour. I’ve never lived outside South Australia so think I need to at least try it, especially as I can’t travel overseas at the moment.

Yes, I too can relate to that feeling of claustrophobia. I so want to see my family again next year. I do think that NZ will be getting rid of the elimination strategy once vaxxed numbers are up there...I don't think people will stand for staying locked up like this otherwise. At the moment it is surely all about protecting the health service. And yes, I agree with pp asking what have they been doing over the last 18 months to help prepare us for this? Bugger all, it seems

This is interesting IMO. I don’t know if it’s true, but it’s surely not far away. For instance, when White Island happened, NZ had to send a lot of burns patients home to Australia because they simply did not have the capacity.

And (again IMO), it’s very well to say the country had 18 months to prepare - it takes four years to train one registered nurse, let alone a doctor at that level. It’s maybe less about $$ spent and more about just time.

And, still flattening the curve,

That said, I think NSW and Vic have had some tough reckonings. ACT and NZ are next. It’s going to be a large call for some of our COVID-free states - hence Palaczczuk’s tone-deaf stuff,

Interesting. I saw just this week that NZ is urgently trying to recruit more ICU nurses from overseas so this is obviously something they're trying to address.

Oh - and of course, ICUs are not just fit COVID patients but maybe also those in a road accident, or who fell off a ladder, or had a stroke, or a new mum after a Caesarian or a post-cardiac patient,

In Australia and NZ, we are still flattening the curve. Yep, we've lost sight a bit, and yep the rest of the world has moved on. But here we are.

Why do people in this thread keep going on about zero covid? It's not a thing here in NSW. Maybe it was once upon a time when the vaccine rollout was slow/non existent but that's no longer the case.

As for the protesters/rioters. Sure, I have sympathy for those who are protesting for valid reasons (even if I may not necessarily agree with those reasons) but it will be a cold day in hell when I start to have any sympathy whatsoever with neo Nazi and other far right groups who have attached themselves to the CFMEU protesters.

but it will be a cold day in hell when I start to have any sympathy whatsoever with neo Nazi and other far right groups who have attached themselves to the CFMEU protesters.

Yep.

yep

Friggin' yep.

I think certain Australian politicians aren’t helping dispel the ‘zero-Covid’ sentiment (it suits their ‘strong’ image). Just look at Palaszczuk’s comments about not opening up at 80% for example: twitter.com/gillardjacob/status/1441193843622223883?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1441193843622223883%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fjunkee.com%2Fannastacia-palaszczuk-india%2F309676
Fear-mongering at its worse..

I heard some of her earlier comments are being referred to the Speaker for potentially misleading Parliament. She seems to have form for taking worse-case scenarios with very low probabilities and presenting them to the general public without these caveats

Her comments about Tokyo are totally out of proportion. Sure, mask wearing and Perspex dividers are commonplace (but aren’t they in most part of the world these days?), but I know for a fact most people are eating out and talking at the same time

Feel free to come to Tokyo. People are still wearing masks in indoor public places except when eating. Other than that it's pretty normal and almost everything is open.

twitter.com/TeabagginZombie/status/1441291518761783299
Can anyone verify this? This is being shared as taking place in Oz. Police officers seen slamming the muzzle of a rifle into someone's ribs and kneeing someone in the back. If this is actual footage it's really bad.

Thing is, in a liberal democracy, you have to put up with people protesting against things you disagree with, because next time it may be something you DO agree with. That’s the whole point of protest and free speech. I don’t agree with violent protest but I do think ALL voices have to be heard, even the ones I vehemently disagree with. That’s the cornerstone of a free, liberal, democratic country.
Interestingly in NSW, I was at my local popular national park today and I saw not a single person wearing a mask. We were all spread out, no big groups, no masks. We had our “picnic” of a bowl of crisps with us but I’ve given up on public, outdoor mask wearing and it looks like a lot of other people have too.

Interestingly in NSW, I was at my local popular national park today and I saw not a single person wearing a mask. We were all spread out, no big groups, no masks. We had our “picnic” of a bowl of crisps with us but I’ve given up on public, outdoor mask wearing and it looks like a lot of other people have too.

It must be lovely.

Seriously though - can you not find an iota of humility in your Northern beaches existence to at least acknowledge your privilege?

Even in your own state there are thousands who don't have acres of bush walks and delightful cafes chockablock with shiny-eyed blonde kiddies joyful to reunite with their friends. They're the indigenous people out west isolating in tents and campervans as the virus spreads through their families, the occupants of regional disabled homes (several of whom were among the 11 dead announced today) and the others whose vax appointments were cancelled to funnel appointments into Sydney.

Jesus f- g Christ.

Lunatic fringe senator leyonhjelm has tweeted suggesting that protesters should throw petrol bombs at police cars. People are reporting him to Crimestoppers.

I don’t see how me having a shit time could make people in other areas have a better time? I don’t live on the northern beaches for a start. Yes I live near a National park, same as loads of people in Sydney
Yes, of course I feel sorry for people who are doing it tough, obviously - I’m not totally heartless. But what should I do? Stay in and whip myself on the hour to do penance for living in a nice part of Sydney and trying to make the best of lockdown? That’s absolutely insane.
It’s the same as the people who are whining about those in Bondi going to the beach and seeing friends, which they’re entitled to do.
I mean, I don’t know where you live but presumably it’s not in poverty in Somalia and you’re “allowed” to enjoy yourself even though there are people suffering in the world?

@Ozgirl75

Stay in and whip myself on the hour

Well honestly. It’s like those people in the U.K. last year who were like “you don’t need any luxuries, just plain bread and water for you” as if there’s some kind of penance to the virus god that can be paid and it will then be appeased.

I’m not totally heartless. But what should I do? Stay in and whip myself on the hour to do penance for living in a nice part of Sydney and trying to make the best of lockdown

Flagellate yourself all you like, whatevs, it's all the same to me.

But it's more than slightly unfair to bitch about hospitals having had 18 months to get it together and now it's your time for coffee and play dates IMO.

What happens when it's you or yours ramped up in an ambulance needing tertiary hospital care after (for e.g) a stroke or an allergic reaction, or a road accident, cardiac arrest or miscarriage, let alone COVID.

But as long as you can toss aside your mask and enjoy *freedom .

I am so tired of the "I'm all right, Jack, brigade". This pandemic has been super illuminating about human nature - not always in a good way.

This moral outrage at each other is exactly what ScoMo needs to distract from his total and utter incompetence at the handling of this pandemic 9 months ago

The single biggest reason why indigenous communities are at such risk now is because of his government actions (or lack thereof) in the past 9 months. Don’t let us fight with each other... save your anger for the polling station....

I am so tired of the "I'm all right, Jack, brigade". This pandemic has been super illuminating about human nature - not always in a good way

You are unlikely to catch Covid outdoors.