Australia/New Zealand New Thread

[Kokeshi123]

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/

Intrastate travel within Australia is also severely restricted. And the government of South Australia, one of the country’s six states, developed and is now testing an app as Orwellian as any in the free world to enforce its quarantine rules. People in South Australia will be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15 minutes,” Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the home-based quarantine app.”

This is... really really disturbing, honestly.

I grew up admiring (and, let's be honest, envying) Australians because as a nation, they always came across as a down-to-earth, fearless lot who had a healthy skepticism of authority while also being basically very civic/community minded.

What's gone wrong?

@OssieShowman

Melbourne here. Shame shame shame to the protestors / rioters who chose to take their protest by the Construction Industry, to the Shrine of Remembrance

Absolutely agree. Not sure of the percentage but there's quite a significant amount of protesters who are aligned with Neo Nazi and other far right groups. No doubt it would have been them.

I follow an independent journalist called real rukshan on Facebook. He livestreams the events happening in Melbourne. Worth checking out.

Armed police and tanks on streets of Melbourne. Pretty shocking stuff and all ultimately in pursuit of an unobtainable goal of zero Covid.
Zero Covid and what needs to be done to the population in order to achieve and maintain it, it’s just not compatible with a functioning democracy. Scenes I saw on Twitter look like 2019 Hong Kong and the crackdown there.

Sorry tanks on the streets of Melbourne? I don't think that happened. I mean I know there's some questionable stuff going on right now but you don't need to make stuff up.

And yes while absolutely the response to the protests should be questioned, away from that situation the police do not tackle people to the ground for not wearing a mask.

And again while I'm not defending some of the actions of the police it was not a peaceful protest that should have been left to run. It was violent and healthcare workers and other people in the wrong place at the wrong time were being attacked.

Armed police and tanks on streets of Melbourne. Pretty shocking stuff and all ultimately in pursuit of an unobtainable goal of zero Covid.

There's no pursuit of zero COVID in Melbourne any longer.

Victoria is officially going down the "live with it" path, for which I - as one Melbourne resident - am actually quite grateful

Would have been nice to have had a higher percentage of people vaxxed before Gladys decided we'd do that, but what can you do?

Armed police The police are armed all the time in Australia.

tanks on streets of Melbourne Never happened, stop making stuff up.

all ultimately in pursuit of an unobtainable goal of zero Covid This has never been a goal.

Rukshan is a Trump loving, climate change denier wedding photographer. I wouldn't put him on that high a pedestal.

I think the riots in Victoria are an expression of how broken Victorians are, not necessarily an expression of different policies across the states. All of Australia benefitted from Victoria returning to covid zero last year but only Victoria paid the price. The country would look very different right now if we had decided it was not worth it or not possible as many people kept saying at the time.

The NSW government have introduced very similar policies to Vic but the riots haven't happened for two reasons: firstly they can see the light at the end of the tunnel because they are the golden child state and refuse to acknowledge it. Secondly it is their first long lock down. I know how it feels coming towards the end of a first long lockdown. I did it last year. I can tell you it feels nothing like how broken you feel trying to find the end of a second long lockdown. I often feel the same level of anger as those men protesting but I am a middle aged woman so it just bounces around my head instead of being taken out on others.

The way the LGAs of concern were treated in Sydney is appalling. I don't know why they didn't riot. But I think if you had been through what we have there would be a lot more civil unrest. It is not some non existent superior policies or superior people in other states.

I think the riots in Vic are evidence of why Zero Covid is no longer feasible.

Don't get me wrong these are complete and utter numpties. Yes we all should have a right to protest but attacking HCP is just wrong. Nothing that anyone can say or so would make it right.

I do have an issue with some of the authoritarian policies and I do think they can encourage protests like this. Vic has probably went too far but still doesn't excuse the behaviour. But ultimately Lockdown is a blunt tool and it only works for so long. Vic had had it harder than most. And I count myself in the UK where its been pretty shit as one of the ones who's had it easier (even with our death toll....). This is what is driving the protests in my opinion. I actually don't see any alternative. You really can't open up yet. That would be disastrous. I just hope that everyone keeps as safe as possible until enough people are vaccinated. We have almost grown too accustomed to death in the UK. I think its easier for as its never really come that close.

I really am torn at the moment. I believe in the right to free protest. But to attack those that keep us all safe. And to protest as a result of the misinformation that you have been gullible enough to believe. Its dangerous. Its wrong and its killing people.

Wakeipon2022 you do realise that we gave up covid zero quite a while ago now don't you? We are just working towards vaccinating and opening up it was just a slow and shit rollout unfairly distributed so Vic has ages to go.

@echt

Armed police The police are armed all the time in Australia.

tanks on streets of Melbourne Never happened, stop making stuff up.

all ultimately in pursuit of an unobtainable goal of zero Covid This has never been a goal.

I think @sashagabadon is probably referring to the pics of the armoured vehicle doing the rounds on Twitter. It’s supposedly a “rescue vehicle” but sure looks tank like and sinister. You can see it in this clip:

twitter.com/voice4victoria/status/1440496323363442688?s=21

Why are Oz and NZ choosing to report only ‘eligible’ percentages?

I can't speak for NZ, though I suspect it may be similar, but in Oz this has been because the federal govt wants to make the vaccinated rates look higher - and massage their dismal efforts a bit more.

70 per cent of over 16s is, in fact, something like 56 per cent of the total population. And 80 per cent is really 64 per cent (or similar) of the total population.

So, liar Morrison, shifty Hunt and their Tory mates who say their target is 70 or 80 percent vaxxed would actually like us to go for it when it is 64 per cent of Australians.

"Eligible population" is often added to reports as a qualifier - because the federal govt keeps crowing about "40 per cent of Australians being vaccinated" etc. the other day, Morrison claimed that 40 per cent mark meant we were halfway to our reopening target. Er, no.

@thingsarelookingup

Wakeipon2022 you do realise that we gave up covid zero quite a while ago now don't you? We are just working towards vaccinating and opening up it was just a slow and shit rollout unfairly distributed so Vic has ages to go.

Yes. NSW & Vic. Where did I say otherwise?

Exactly @KowhaiWhy our government will never give up an opportunity to massage stats to make themselves look better. It's just like whenever questions come up about how many Pfizer doses we are getting they answer with how many mRNA doses we are getting so they can add the Moderna doses and sound better.

Indigo the naysayers will disregard that footage because it doesn’t come from channel 9 or 7.

I’m hearing that Health care workers were attacked and yet there is no footage of this anywhere 🤷‍♀️

Start up, I never said I put him in a pedestal, I said that he livestreams the events that are unedited therefore you can make up your own mind about the level of policing taking place. You say wedding photographer like an insult? You know he’d still be doing that if the industry wasn’t locked down right.

How anyone can agree with firing on unarmed citizens in a democratic society is beyond me

Wakeupin2022 you said the riots in Vic were evidence that covid zero was no longer feasible. Did I misunderstand what you meant by that?

I otherwise agreed with your whole post so happy to be corrected on my misunderstanding.

@thingsarelookingup

I think the riots in Victoria are an expression of how broken Victorians are, not necessarily an expression of different policies across the states. All of Australia benefitted from Victoria returning to covid zero last year but only Victoria paid the price. The country would look very different right now if we had decided it was not worth it or not possible as many people kept saying at the time.

The NSW government have introduced very similar policies to Vic but the riots haven't happened for two reasons: firstly they can see the light at the end of the tunnel because they are the golden child state and refuse to acknowledge it. Secondly it is their first long lock down. I know how it feels coming towards the end of a first long lockdown. I did it last year. I can tell you it feels nothing like how broken you feel trying to find the end of a second long lockdown. I often feel the same level of anger as those men protesting but I am a middle aged woman so it just bounces around my head instead of being taken out on others.

The way the LGAs of concern were treated in Sydney is appalling. I don't know why they didn't riot. But I think if you had been through what we have there would be a lot more civil unrest. It is not some non existent superior policies or superior people in other states.

I’m not up to speed on state v each other but I agree that the mood after a second lockdown is markedly different to post first.

We didn’t have that much past protest although some in the summer not so related to lockdowns. I think we didn’t break as much but mentally maybe many did.

Melbourne has had longer and for low cases although rising so different again,

Maybe another difference was the protests just happened here. If police had done the same it would have looked more similar.

Vic seemed to be in never ending lockdown last year, I’m not surprised people are losing it. I don’t have much sympathy for the protesters though, they seem feral.

Lovely sunny day here in Auckland. Lots of news stories already with outrage at people not observing L3 rules but what do people expect. It’s been six weeks and this is Auckland’s 4th lockdown.

I’m not going to stop my kids from going on the swings at the park FFS

Now I see Michael Baker is holding forth saying if we don’t maintain L3 compliance we’ll be in lockdown until Christmas to maintain elimination

🤯🤯🤯

It seems from an outsider perspective that NZ hasn't quite decided which way to jump and is still hedging their bets.

I think there are a few people who are very invested in/wedded to the elimination strategy and very vocal about it.

It was only ever meant to be about managing the risk until we got a vaccine - but it seems to have morphed into some warped symbol of NZ exceptionalism and purity. It’s batshit

I just don’t see how they think they’re going to achieve elimination without cutting themselves off forever basically. Is that the plan?

If there’s a plan the Govt hasn’t seen fit to share it with us