Australia/New Zealand New Thread

[Kokeshi123]

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/

Intrastate travel within Australia is also severely restricted. And the government of South Australia, one of the country’s six states, developed and is now testing an app as Orwellian as any in the free world to enforce its quarantine rules. People in South Australia will be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15 minutes,” Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the home-based quarantine app.”

This is... really really disturbing, honestly.

I grew up admiring (and, let's be honest, envying) Australians because as a nation, they always came across as a down-to-earth, fearless lot who had a healthy skepticism of authority while also being basically very civic/community minded.

What's gone wrong?

Eight of 11 dead in NSW today were disabled people living in sheltered homes, who should have been vaccinated by Easter. Easter!

Bugger me - I have a burning anger for this federal government. I have enough for several people. Unfortunately, I only have two votes - one lower house, one upper.

I am so tired of the "I'm all right, Jack, brigade". This pandemic has been super illuminating about human nature - not always in a good way

You are unlikely to catch Covid outdoors.

wrong quote @Wakeupin2022? Or having a laugh, I'm not sure

Ummm, I have literally no say in how the government prepares for a pandemic. Yes, they should have done more.
I run a business that nearly went under last year, and is clinging on by its fingernails. We have lost three relations in the U.K. and have watched their funerals on Zoom, one last night.
So forgive me for having a nice afternoon in the sun with my family, you joy sucking bore.
I don’t even get your point. Nothing I am doing is having the slightest effect on the outcome of the pandemic.
Staying inside with the curtains drawn while my children cry quietly in a corner will not make the pandemic go away any quicker than if we go for a walk in a park.

you joy sucking bore.

Two words

One starts with F, the other with a Y

Enjoy you smug we're all 80 per cent vaxxed, life is returning jazz hands bullshit

Ok. You seem really sad and angry. I hope you’re doing ok. Maybe head off and do something else now, that makes you feel less….like this.

wrong quote@Wakeupin2022? Or having a laugh, I'm not sure

There is nothing to laugh about. You are attacking someone for going for a picnic and not wearing a mask outside. And imaging she doesn't give a fuck about others.

I have read her posts. I can't see where her attitude is I'm alright Jack to hell with everyone else. If she was having a big party indoors then you may have a post.

I don't see how enjoying the great outdoors is selfish or increasing the risks of Covid.

Your attitude does remind me of some of the commentators on here in the UK early days. It easily nice, it wasn't pretty and actually gives the impression that you want everyone to suffer unnecessarily because you are scared of Covid.

There is a balance that can be found in the hardest of times, and going to a national park if you can with a picnic sounds like a great thing to do.

I'm going to take a guess that some of the anger here is that Victorians are quite literally paying the price to let Sydney out of lockdown first. They are reaching the Vax rates to leave lockdown weeks before we are because our vaccines were given to them. I think you could take a moment to think about how this feels. Now Ozgirl75 obviously had no say in this but to constantly talk about how she is feeling that the end of lockdown is close is hard to hear. Earlier in this thread I talked about how hard it was and how it does not feel like the end is anywhere in sight and Ozgirl75 responded by again saying how great things are in Sydney. I walked away for a few hours and did not respond.

Ok, fair enough.
I’ll bow out now, I certainly didn’t mean to make anyone feel worse. I think what with all the absolute crap that’s happening in my life at the moment, I’m just trying to stay positive and looking forward.
I’m sorry that I’ve offended people, so I’ll head off now.

I don't see how enjoying the great outdoors is selfish or increasing the risks of Covid.

It isn’t.

The outrage is out of proportion. Speaking as someone from another country that has endured unusually long lockdowns (ROI) once you’re out of them, the incredible costs make themselves known.

We have MH services bursting at the seams, children miles behind where they should be at school and behavioural problems spiralling, physical health and fitness declining, social isolation at an all time high. It’s dreadful. I would urge people strongly not to berate others for doing what they can to keep themselves sane (that’s very low risk for spread). You will be picking up the pieces of this for a long time.

But that's exactly my point thekeatingfive, we are paying those costs to let Sydney out when we have already paid them longer than anyone else. It's not about spreading covid, it's about having been unfairly given a privilege and not acknowledging it in any way.

But that's exactly my point thekeatingfive, we are paying those costs to let Sydney out when we have already paid them longer than anyone else

That is not Ozgirl75 fault and there’s not a thing she can do about it.

Keeping herself on an even keel is the best thing she can do for the greater good actually. Getting worked up about her enjoying a picnic is entirely counter productive.

I feel tremendously bad for the people of Melbourne though, because I think you’ve now taken the mantle of the longest lockdown in the world. Pressure should be put on politicians to ensure that measures are actually proportional (masks outside are just not necessary) and are lifted as soon as possible.

@Ozgirl75

Don’t be gone for too long! All posters’ experiences are true, lived and varied experiences of the pandemic. We all have a valid voice in this discussion. Sometimes opinions are expressed clumsily (not saying that’s the case with you, but I’ve certainly been guilty of this) but don’t feel like you need to leave this thread because you have inadvertently upset another poster.

The lockdown in Melbourne is clearly not proportional now, as is outside mask wearing. Maybe you could argue that it makes indoor mask wearing more widespread but it’s absolutely ott to wear a mask outside when there are very very few cases, effective test and trace, sewage testing, vaccinations, QR codes everywhere, social distencing. How many lives will these last few months of restrictions actually save? The over 60s should be targeted for vaccination - only 90% or so have had one dose, it should be more like 98% by now. If this hasn’t happened yet then when will it? Deaths will go up when restrictions end , either now or in 3 months. Who is benefiting from Melbourne lockdown now because I’m guessing it’s not Melbournians.

I have to admit I’ve never seen a country so fractured by Covid restrictions.

Germany had something similar, where different states had different restrictions and they didn’t all want to sign up to the Federal government’s plan, but Merkel managed to get a consensus in the end. As far as I’m aware there was very little of the outright moral outrage and condemnation directed at people and politicians in different states, that you’re seeing with Australia.

@Wakeupin2022

I am so tired of the "I'm all right, Jack, brigade". This pandemic has been super illuminating about human nature - not always in a good way

You are unlikely to catch Covid outdoors.

Exactly. Ozgirl enjoying a nice walk in a park sans mask (which we can all agree is useless outside) is not causing indigenous people to die in Western NSW or stuffing up vaccine roll outs to nursing homes and disabled people.

I’m angry with how the governments in this country are handling the pandemic but me being angry does nothing and quiet frankly is exhausting. All I and anyone else can do is get vaccinated and not forget this mess when the next election roll around.

Our Prime Minister is no Merkel. Our media has stoked division. Melbourne has had a tough tough time with continued sniping and undermining from our Federal government and other states.

@Ozgirl75

Ok, fair enough. I’ll bow out now, I certainly didn’t mean to make anyone feel worse. I think what with all the absolute crap that’s happening in my life at the moment, I’m just trying to stay positive and looking forward. I’m sorry that I’ve offended people, so I’ll head off now.

Don’t go Ozgirl. Everyone is handling this their own way. Your views are valid and so much of what you say is true.

Want to know something crazy? I’m working in my office job in Adelaide the other day and everything was going to shit. Do you know what I thought? I should be grateful that I can have my shitty day in the office because people in Sydney and Melbourne can’t even go to work at the moment. Talk about twisted survivor guilt

@thingsarelookingup

I'm going to take a guess that some of the anger here is that Victorians are quite literally paying the price to let Sydney out of lockdown first. They are reaching the Vax rates to leave lockdown weeks before we are because our vaccines were given to them. I think you could take a moment to think about how this feels. Now Ozgirl75 obviously had no say in this but to constantly talk about how she is feeling that the end of lockdown is close is hard to hear. Earlier in this thread I talked about how hard it was and how it does not feel like the end is anywhere in sight and Ozgirl75 responded by again saying how great things are in Sydney. I walked away for a few hours and did not respond.

Long lockdown cause a lot of distress. Those from the north of England had a few angry words last summer at the mention of people going out, southern England similarly sad at losing Christmas. It makes people feel irrationally angry, because they want someone to blame. When people understand cases can't run rampant, they still feel cross with those who aren't sensitive to their struggles; meanwhile those who are exhausted from their own lockdown don't necessarily have the strength to think through everyone else's feelings. It's ok to have spurts of anger though, even irrational ones; anger is a stage of grief. As others have said, being outside isn't a major danger, and one person making the best of things has zero impact on anyone else. Your time to come out of lockdown will come as well, and I'm sorry you're struggling so much right now.

I suspect both Australia and New Zealand were hoping the first vaccines were going to be neutralising rather than just preventing serious disease.

Could we just be clear here that I'm not the one that had a go at Ozgirl75 for having picnics and not wearing a mask outdoors. I do both of those things at times and really don't have a problem with them. I was just trying to explain where that anger may have come from.

It was a guess at someone else's motivations however so could have been far off the mark.

I really get the irrational outpouring of anger though. I feel it all the time. I used to have excellent mental health but those same tricks I used to stay happy in normal life do not work in lockdown.

I think the raging against individuals is pretty unhelpful, we are all trying to make the best of things here.

Also in sydney, single mum of an only child, we had an 'illegal' sleepover last weekend as I took one of my friends kids for the night to allow his mum to take care of his older sister, a 12 yo girl who had become so low that she wanted to die.

We are also spending our days at the beach, swimming, taking walks and trying to look after the mental health of our young children, I think the experience that @Ozgirl75 is having is pretty similar to most of my friends. We are all double vaxxed and our children have been home alone for months.

I don’t really understand the confusion in NZ. They’ve been quite clear at the 1pm briefings that lockdowns are not our long term solution, that the goal is to get vaccination rates up as high as possible and that the higher that is the fewer restrictions we’ll need to keep COVID cases at a manageable level when the country opens up. They’ve talked about what this might look like - masks in certain situations, signing in etc - and now they’re talking about using vaccine passports domestically as a short term tool, like Denmark and others have done. They’re introducing gently that there will be covid cases in the community in the future, but at the moment the elimination strategy is still being followed because not enough people are fully vaccinated.

Exactly, Kiwi09. I see John Key has been piping up today, comparing NZ's response to North Korea . I think most of his helpful suggestions for the way forward are already on the agenda once we've got enough people vaccinated.

I do like his incentive ideas for getting the reluctant to be vaccinated, though.