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Those of us who were ‘cannon fodder’- how do you feel?

884 replies

Onandoff · 22/08/2021 09:09

I went to a gathering the other day with people who were privileged enough to still be working from home in highly paid city jobs. Their experiences were a stark contrast with mine. It was interesting to hear how protected they’d been, many still getting shopping delivered and only just resuming socialising. They hadn’t been on public transport at all. There was a general air of resentment at being asked to go back to offices and commute. They’d all saved money and were very worried about covid exposure despite being vaccinated. Apparently many workers have completely refused to return.

DH and I were the only key workers there and it brought home how exposed we’d been. Literally all of our family and colleagues caught it and some died or were left disabled. My mum died. In the hospital where I work 80% caught it in the first wave alone.

It’s been interesting to see through this that the jobs essential to society are (generally, appreciate some exceptions like medics) the worst paid. If we’d refused to go in or been redeployed we’d have been sacked. While the privileged middle class are still being pandered to despite vaccination.

I feel that those who went out to work should be financially compensated for the risk we took. At the very least we should be given tax breaks and not be expected to cough up for furlough costs.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 22/08/2021 17:30

Ministers instruct, civil servants implement according to instructions.

Which makes one wonder why civil servants with job title like ‘Senior Policy Advisor’ exist.

GoldenOmber · 22/08/2021 17:31

Noble, remember how many times you have corrected people on here who believe that teachers/unions decide whether schools should be closed and whether exams should run? Do you honestly not think the rest of the public sector might be in a similar position - neither all-powerful nor totally useless?

GintyMcGinty · 22/08/2021 17:36

@MiddleParking I'm afraid it doesn't matter what you write @noblegiraffe is going to twist it to have a snarky pop at you.

MiddleParking · 22/08/2021 17:40

@noblegiraffe

I repeat: those words aren’t synonymous

Yes, I get that you are proud of your work and how impactful it is but also you have no input into guidance or policy. So perhaps you are in charge of tea-making.

I never said at any point I don’t have any input into policy. That doesn’t mean me and my colleagues are the people to hold accountable for policy you dislike. You think you’ve identified a contradiction; you haven’t. I’m afraid anyone on a chat forum who wished me to do so would be waiting a while for me to jump through hoops to try and prove that my work is worthy of their respect.
GoldenOmber · 22/08/2021 17:41

It is ridiculous, though. I've worked in different parts of the public sector including the sainted NHS and no matter where you work, the right-wing tabloids always believe that you've got a better pension than you do, better pay than you do, more power than you have (either directly or through the unions), and do no work anyway.

If you already work in the public sector I really don't see what the logic or the benefit is of assuming they're right about everyone else when you know they're wrong about your bit.

namechange7865 · 22/08/2021 17:41

@noblegiraffe after reading your pleas over the last year for empathy and understanding towards teaching, and frustration at people's misunderstanding around schools, I'm quite surprised by your ignorant vitriol towards thousands of civil servants, it will certainly make me view your future posts in a different light. Perhaps practice some of the empathy you so desperately seek.

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2021 17:46

surprised by your ignorant vitriol towards thousands of civil servants

I doubt there are thousands at the DfE?

Maybe if you’re not directly affected by their incompetence you may see that criticism as unfair.

MiddleParking · 22/08/2021 17:46

[quote GintyMcGinty]**@MiddleParking* I'm afraid it doesn't matter what you write @noblegiraffe* is going to twist it to have a snarky pop at you. [/quote]
I know, odd isn’t it. What I can’t really fathom is why a teacher of all people would choose to behave that way given how much they (rightly) dislike it when it’s levelled at them. But, you know, nowt as queer as folk.

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2021 17:48

I never said at any point I don’t have any input into policy. That doesn’t mean me and my colleagues are the people to hold accountable for policy

Exactly what I meant, you can be proud of your impact when it’s good, but when it’s bad, point at the minister.

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2021 17:50

Middle has admitted that they don’t work for the DfE and aren’t actually aware of the guidance or policies or issues that I’m talking about.

MiddleParking · 22/08/2021 17:50

@noblegiraffe

surprised by your ignorant vitriol towards thousands of civil servants

I doubt there are thousands at the DfE?

Maybe if you’re not directly affected by their incompetence you may see that criticism as unfair.

You doubt there are thousands of civil servants at DfE? Did you think the department was solely tasked with writing this piece of guidance about windows that pissed you off? That explains a lot Grin
tattymacduff · 22/08/2021 17:52

Which makes one wonder why civil servants with job title like ‘Senior Policy Advisor’ exist

Because, in a nutshell, they advise ministers how the policy the government wants to adopt can best be put into place?

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2021 17:53

You doubt there are thousands of civil servants at DfE?

All policy writers?

ChloeDecker · 22/08/2021 17:54

It’s interesting reading about the civil service discussion on here. The DfE civil servants were at least compensated with their £1,000 bonus last Christmas, which is something that the OP is asking for consideration, which I don’t think is unreasonable. Unlikely to happen sadly but still reasonable and fair to want.

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2021 17:54

they advise ministers how the policy the government wants to adopt can best be put into place?

So they’re bad at their job? Coming out with guff like ‘hold classes outside in winter’?

Knittingupastorm · 22/08/2021 17:55

@noblegiraffe

surprised by your ignorant vitriol towards thousands of civil servants

I doubt there are thousands at the DfE?

Maybe if you’re not directly affected by their incompetence you may see that criticism as unfair.

Well as of 2019 there were nearly 7,000.

And your last sentence could be used towards you by anyone criticising the teachers/schools that you have very passionately defended for the past year. You’ve got people on this thread telling you how it works, you not listening is the problem.

MiddleParking · 22/08/2021 17:55

@noblegiraffe

Middle has admitted that they don’t work for the DfE and aren’t actually aware of the guidance or policies or issues that I’m talking about.
Again, that isn’t a contradiction because you really, really don’t need to work in that specific policy team (which I’d guess has about four people in it) to know how totally ridiculous it is to suggest they should ‘feel ashamed’ of themselves for it being drafted in a way you don’t like, because they have a flexible working policy that allows, and in fact enforces, some home working.
borntobequiet · 22/08/2021 18:00

But, you know, nowt as queer as folk.

Incisive and insightful.

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2021 18:01

Well as of 2019 there were nearly 7,000.

Ok, I’m not entirely sure what they all do, however if they have not been directly involved in writing govt schools guidance/policy then I’m not talking about them. Middle said I was directing my anger at ‘a very small team of civil servants’ so presumably they weren’t thinking of a team of 7000 and neither was I.

MiddleParking · 22/08/2021 18:02

@noblegiraffe

You doubt there are thousands of civil servants at DfE?

All policy writers?

Most of them will be, yes, it’s a policy department. Education is one of the broadest churches there is, policy wise. A huge number of them will be working on things that have nothing to do with schools or teachers.
noblegiraffe · 22/08/2021 18:03

how totally ridiculous it is to suggest they should ‘feel ashamed’ of themselves for it being drafted in a way you don’t like

I would have. Like I said, we’re not going to see eye-to-eye on that. I have previously quit a job I found ethically troubling.

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2021 18:04

A huge number of them will be working on things that have nothing to do with schools or teachers.

Then it should be clear I’m not talking about them.

borntobequiet · 22/08/2021 18:05

A huge number of them will be working on things that have nothing to do with schools or teachers.

As is clearly evident in many of their communications and activities. In whic case, what are the actually for?

borntobequiet · 22/08/2021 18:05

Which

borntobequiet · 22/08/2021 18:06

What! They!