Those of us who were ‘cannon fodder’- how do you feel?

[Onandoff]

I went to a gathering the other day with people who were privileged enough to still be working from home in highly paid city jobs. Their experiences were a stark contrast with mine. It was interesting to hear how protected they’d been, many still getting shopping delivered and only just resuming socialising. They hadn’t been on public transport at all. There was a general air of resentment at being asked to go back to offices and commute. They’d all saved money and were very worried about covid exposure despite being vaccinated. Apparently many workers have completely refused to return.

DH and I were the only key workers there and it brought home how exposed we’d been. Literally all of our family and colleagues caught it and some died or were left disabled. My mum died. In the hospital where I work 80% caught it in the first wave alone.

It’s been interesting to see through this that the jobs essential to society are (generally, appreciate some exceptions like medics) the worst paid. If we’d refused to go in or been redeployed we’d have been sacked. While the privileged middle class are still being pandered to despite vaccination.

I feel that those who went out to work should be financially compensated for the risk we took. At the very least we should be given tax breaks and not be expected to cough up for furlough costs.

@noblegiraffe

how totally ridiculous it is to suggest they should ‘feel ashamed’ of themselves for it being drafted in a way you don’t like

I would have. Like I said, we’re not going to see eye-to-eye on that. I have previously quit a job I found ethically troubling.

Do ethics pay the bills? Also they'd be changing jobs every few years as direction tends to change.

@noblegiraffe

they advise ministers how the policy the government wants to adopt can best be put into place?

So they’re bad at their job? Coming out with guff like ‘hold classes outside in winter’?

You thinking policy is ‘guff’ doesn’t make the civil servants bad at their jobs. I agree with you that that’s a terrible idea; the person who wrote it probably thinks so too. What would make a civil servant really bad at their job would be if they said, “that’s a terrible idea, minister, and I refuse to do any work on it; I’ll write this other policy that I think would be better, and sod what you think of it”. A precedent of civil servants being able to do that to elected officials if they didn’t like what the minister proposed would mean no democracy.

Do ethics pay the bills?

No, transferable skills do. Maybe they could go into teaching, there’s a huge shortage.

@GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr

Bollocks. Tories subsidised everybody rich or poor through furlough, self employment and universal credit money

Rubbish. If your partner was working you couldn't claim anything if you lost your job. If you were on a zero hour contract you were fucked. Many of those who were able to claim ended up in debt while they waited for their money to come through - a standard five weeks, although with the massive demand there was a huge backlog and for some people it took a lot longer.

Many, many people slipped through the net and were not able to access any financial support.

You were always fucked on a zero hours contract. Think about it. But universal credit opened up. You could claim if your partner was working! I got furlough whilst DP worked, They paid DP within a week. Unheard off, needs credit actually.

@borntobequiet

A huge number of them will be working on things that have nothing to do with schools or teachers.

As is clearly evident in many of their communications and activities. In whic case, what are the actually for?

Policymaking. Did you think the word ‘education’ only meant schools?

@noblegiraffe

Do ethics pay the bills?

No, transferable skills do. Maybe they could go into teaching, there’s a huge shortage.

Why would civil servants need to go into teaching when they have jobs already? Because some people misunderstand their work and criticise it on bad faith premises? If that was a reason to leave your job there wouldn’t be a single teacher left.

We were furloughed for 3 months as a money saving exercise by our company, but then back on the front line. We all got covid and one person was disciplined fornot wearing full PPE despite the fact that our job makes social distancing and wearing full PPE at all times impossible.

Not possible to work from home.

I do not however resent the people who worked from and are still working from home. Quite frankly, i think wfh should be encouraged as it is far more environmentally friendly.

I did feel sorry for key workers, it has been utterly shit for them and scary. Nobody mentions their mental health in all of this.

The past few minths have had the most impact on me , despite being double jabbed, i feel vulnerable (ive had covid). I hate the uncertainty and i am sure there are nany people at breaking point right now.

I am forever grateful to thise key workers who put themselves on the line for the rest if us.

Its been shit for everyone, just in different ways. It is far from over

Because some people misunderstand their work and criticise it on bad faith premises?

No, because some people might find they are not happy writing and enacting e.g. morally reprehensible policies. As we have discussed, we do not see eye-to-eye on this.

Did you think the word ‘education’ only meant schools?

The DfE don't understand anything apart from primary or secondary schools. Ask teachers at special schools, middle schools, maintained nurseries; it was like they didn't exist.

Did you think the word ‘education’ only meant schools?

No.

@noblegiraffe

how totally ridiculous it is to suggest they should ‘feel ashamed’ of themselves for it being drafted in a way you don’t like

I would have. Like I said, we’re not going to see eye-to-eye on that. I have previously quit a job I found ethically troubling.

Wouldn’t you find it ethically troubling if civil servants were able to override democratically elected officials on policies? They wouldn’t just be able to do so in the ways you would like.

I don't think anyone has suggested they should override policy decisions. But there should be some kind of common sense check. For example the guidance (I think last September) said staff had to stay 2m from students at all times. In the majority of classrooms, this is physically impossible. Someone should have said "oi Gav, have you seen the size of some state classrooms".

@Hercisback

Did you think the word ‘education’ only meant schools?

The DfE don't understand anything apart from primary or secondary schools. Ask teachers at special schools, middle schools, maintained nurseries; it was like they didn't exist.

You mean the government doesn’t. If the minister responsible for it, or the prime minister, had prioritised really good, clear, consistent guidance being written for early years settings or special schools during lockdown, that’s what would have happened. It didn’t because of this government’s contempt for disabled people and women.

I have not rtft but I hear you OP.

I think people seem to forget that in those first weeks it was terrifying. We knew little about the virus and how it was spread.
We didn't have enough masks.
Everytime I walked into work I thought that is it I'm going to get it and could potentially die.

I was beyond fucked off with the " well it is a risk of the job you chose" no it bloody well isn't. We were at the time sacrificial lambs.

We saw horrific stuff and were shattered
I have since left the NHS.
I worked through the 2 waves and as a result now have PTSD.
I work in radiology and was redeployed to ITU in December, it was a shambles.

The NHS is largely ran on goodwill and for me after covid my goodwill was on empty.

In fact, I’ve been working in FE for the past seven years, in vocational education. Policymakers evidently don’t understand:

• The needs of learners, particularly those who have been failed previously by the education system.
• The needs of employers, who require learning and training that is both agile and focused on a changing workplace.
• That high quality education and training needs to be properly resourced.
• That funding shouldn’t depend on ticking boxes that are irrelevant to effective learning and training.
• That, above all, vocational education is crucial to our success as a nation, and that it is worth investing in, both financially and, for young people in particular, aspirationally.

@Hercisback

I don't think anyone has suggested they should override policy decisions. But there should be some kind of common sense check. For example the guidance (I think last September) said staff had to stay 2m from students at all times. In the majority of classrooms, this is physically impossible. Someone should have said "oi Gav, have you seen the size of some state classrooms".

I expect they did, I expect they kept the emails, the reports they had submitted and a summary of responses and recommendations (remembering it's only those at the top that would have any comms directly anyway which takes out a lot of the workforce) saying just that in case its challenged down the line; but none of that means he listened or took any heed to it. It's a balance of not actually having power to decide policy or override it, but feeding into recommendations which frustratingly can be fully ignored by ministers.

If the minister responsible for it, or the prime minister, had prioritised really good, clear, consistent guidance being written for early years settings or special schools during lockdown, that’s what would have happened.

Do you believe that mainstream straightforward primary and secondary schools got really good, clear, consistent guidance?

@ilovebrie8

Just looked at this thread again and if you look at just all the OP’s posts together which you can do when you log in they are all either aggressive and or nasty...time to end his charade!! It’s not worth arguing with stupid ...think this is all false now...

Erm, lots of coherent points made by the Op. Who made you the judge of stupid? Just listen and respond to the points made.

@noblegiraffe

they advise ministers how the policy the government wants to adopt can best be put into place?

So they’re bad at their job? Coming out with guff like ‘hold classes outside in winter’?

Some will be crap at their job and some will be good. Just like some teachers are crap and some are good. The guff about classes outside might have been drafted by a civil servant or a minister or a SPAD could have instructed it be put in.

@noblegiraffe

If the minister responsible for it, or the prime minister, had prioritised really good, clear, consistent guidance being written for early years settings or special schools during lockdown, that’s what would have happened.

Do you believe that mainstream straightforward primary and secondary schools got really good, clear, consistent guidance?

No, of course not. I also certainly don’t believe that that’s because a team of civil servants wouldn’t have been capable of writing good, clear guidance.

The best bit of that is the take them outside but don't open windows inside if it's cold... it's written by an absurdist whoever it was.

I also certainly don’t believe that that’s because a team of civil servants wouldn’t have been capable of writing good, clear guidance.

So Gav doesn't write it, nor do the civil service, so who does?

I also certainly don’t believe that that’s because a team of civil servants wouldn’t have been capable of writing good, clear guidance.

Vs

Some will be crap at their job and some will be good. Just like some teachers are crap and some are good. The guff about classes outside might have been drafted by a civil servant or a minister or a SPAD could have instructed it be put in.

At least someone is being honest that maybe, just maybe, some civil servants at the DfE are not entirely blameless.

@Hercisback

I don't think anyone has suggested they should override policy decisions. But there should be some kind of common sense check. For example the guidance (I think last September) said staff had to stay 2m from students at all times. In the majority of classrooms, this is physically impossible. Someone should have said "oi Gav, have you seen the size of some state classrooms".

And then he’d have said to the private secretary relaying that to him something like “national guidance is two metres, I can’t say something different without causing an issue with the centre” and the private secretary puts a comment in the shared document saying something like “Secretary of State wants to keep this para to maintain alignment with national guidance on social distancing” and the policy adviser says “righto”. That’s not because the policy adviser doesn’t care or thinks it doesn’t matter or is bad at their job, it’s because the minister gets to make the call, and the minister happens to be a weasel who wouldn’t piss on a teacher if they were on fire, and lots of people who also wouldn’t piss on a teacher if they were on fire voted for the minister to be the guy who makes the call, and in this country we run things based on how people vote. Even when those people are the pits. It’s shit when it doesn’t go your way, but the alternatives are pretty shit too.