Better late than never - CO2 monitors for classrooms in England

[lannistunut]

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/aug/21/classrooms-england-monitor-air-quality-effort-combat-covid-better-ventilation

Finally the government are taking the first step towards proper ventilation, frustratingly slow and late as ever, but every step forward is progress.

I think it’s a good start and would happily accept one in my classroom. Equally I’m planning on keeping all my windows open and ignore the cold whinging!

DS's school (all classrooms and staff rooms with large windows that open) has introduced them last year to ensure regular airing of the rooms. It is suprising to see how soon the air quality in a room can deteriorate.

They have added airing to the list of class offices pupils takes turns in from early on.

I'd be very happy to have one in my stuffy classroom with the windows which only open a couple of inches.
When it goes off, I won't be able to do anything though.

@Misssugarplum12764

For it to work, there needs to be an ACTUAL plan for if, when they finally arrive having been contracted out to one of their buddies, the monitors show that some (many!) schools or parts of schools can’t actually be ventilated properly. On this thread and in responses to the DFE on social media you can see that schools who already have these in science labs find they’re constantly going off! Without an actual plan to improve ventilation, this is no more than the DFE’s usual solution to COVID; a useless piece of propaganda at best and a way to point the responsibility/blame to schools at worst.

The other thing to be aware of is the CO2 alarms for science labs are not calibrated to check ventilation, they are to ensure safety when using Bunsen burners - they are set to ensure CO2 doesn't go high enough for the CO2 itself to be a risk to health. Think the legal limit for extended exposure is 5000 ppm so ours seems to be set below that at 3500 ppm to give a safety cushion. For ventilation to help prevent covid spread ideally you want around 800 ppm, and definitely below 1500 ppm.

Ours go off occasionally at 3500 ppm, they have a display with the current readout - it's regularly above 2000 ppm with a full class in...

@borntobequiet

Well yes, but mostly that article is a load of disingenuous tosh. They’ve only just realised Covid is airborne? The monitors will “reassure” people that (non-existent) ventilation is working? And what action can be taken if the alarm sounds? You can’t exactly transfer a Physics practical complete with Bunsen burners to the playground. It’s a bit like installing fire alarms but having no fire extinguishers or fire drill.

💯 this. It's herd immunity plan, but can't say that (now Bbc had an article about whether young should be vaccinated). Wtf did they think would happen with an airborne disease? Other countries have been responding to this for ages. By UK responding with the equivalent of implementing a 'smoke alarm', they can say they're doing something, whilst doing nothing. By the time they actually do do something, they've intentionally (and it is intentional or something would have been done before now) let a lot of kids get infected.

I've had co2 alarms in my classroom for years. All it does is turn red by 10am because iv'e got 35 11 years olds all breathing. I turn the fan on. It turns red again by 10.30.

It's lipservice, that's all. It does nothing. It just lets the teacher know that they are breathing in the muggy exhalations of kids, that's all.

It’s pregnancy tests instead of condoms isn’t it?

And I also imagine a monitor that keeps going off is probably quite disruptive to a lesson.

Probably equalled only by a wasp in the room.

Mine doesn't bleep, it just turns red. And stays red all day! Despite my feeble extractor fan and two windows small windows. If they all bleeped and were wired into the DFE offices REALLY NOISILY they might consider refurbing school buildings.

The idea is for CO2 monitors, not ask hands. There won't be any being, drills or evacuations. The CO2 level will be expected to be monitored at set times throughout the day to obtain an average CO2 reading for the room. Anything up to 800ppm is considered to indicate adequate ventilation. Anything regularly beyond this gives teachers, schools and unions hard, concrete evidence that the environment is not satisfactory and steps are needed to improve ventilation. Yes, it's slow progress, yes, it's going to deliver meaningful information far too late to help schools this winter, but maybe - just maybe - it's the first step on the road to actually addressing and fixing the issue in schools.

www.hse.gov.uk/coronavirus/equipment-and-machinery/air-conditioning-and-ventilation/identifying-poorly-ventilated-areas.htm

Ask hands = alarms. Any being = any beeps. Bloody autocorrect!

if they all bleeped and were wired into the DFE offices REALLY NOISILY they might consider refurbing school buildings

Don’t forget the DfE are still working from home because it’s not safe to be in the office.

@FromTheAshes do you expect the Government to do anything if the monitors show issues in the classrooms?

Anything regularly beyond this gives teachers, schools and unions hard, concrete evidence that the environment is not satisfactory

We’ve got concrete evidence that school environments aren’t satisfactory from the DfE themselves. £11.4 billion needed to bring it up to scratch. Are we seeing the money pouring in and the repairs being made? schoolsweek.co.uk/repairing-englands-schools-will-cost-11-4-billion-dfe-admits/

@ineedaholidaynow I deliberately didn't mention the government in my post. I have less than zero faith in them.

I also suspect the CO2 monitors that they will buy will cost us millions but only be worth thousands, and won’t actually work properly…

We've had these in our labs for several years since our last refit and I'd say half the labs have them going off a few times a week with the windows open already, and without any equipment being used. We have safety windows with us being high up and in a city. An 8cm gap does jack shit for ventilation, as demonstrated by the CO2 alarm beeping so much.

But that is all we have. What else can we do, apart from teach in the yard in the rain, which is actually surrounded by a busy T junction.

Maybe this has already been mentioned.... Are these things also made in China along with the LFT test kits? 🙄

@Appuskidu

I also suspect the CO2 monitors that they will buy will cost us millions but only be worth thousands, and won’t actually work properly…

Yes. I was going to mention this.

This is the government that’s been paying top end prices for substandard PPE for healthcare staff for 18months. It’s difficult to imagine that the CO2 monitors the government procures will a) work b) be worth the 25million the government is spending on it.

@Mum21031608

I honestly, honestly don't identify with this, my child deliberately sat by the open window the whole time and was fine (also A-levels)

Which is because I’m guessing he’s picked up on your worries about classrooms? Or because you’ve told him how dangerous it is to sit in classrooms?

If he’s purposefully going for the open window (was he pushing other students out the way to do this?) then he must have some level of heightened anxiety that the other children don’t have?

I agree with others in that there’s little point in having the monitors if there is no solution.

So it beeps….then what?
Realistically what can the teacher actually do?

I imagine a classroom full of primary school age children may not be as willing to sit in cold classrooms as A Level age students are.

And I also imagine a monitor that keeps going off is probably quite disruptive to a lesson.

As another poster said - the monitor is only telling teachers and the public what they already know.

The Givernment need to do something to improve ventilation in classroom, not hand out monitors that won’t actually solve anything.

You’re doing a great job with your campaigning though OP, keep fighting because like you said, nothing will change otherwise

Bit late to this but your post is completely fictional.

He doesn't have 'worries', neither do I.

If he’s purposefully going for the open window (was he pushing other students out the way to do this?) then he must have some level of heightened anxiety that the other children don’t have? Your children might push people, but you really shouldn't judge mine by your standards. Of course he didn't push anyone - he was SEVENTEEN ffs.

I didn't tell him the classroom was dangerous. He has no heightened anxiety. He happily went off to class every day, but he is not thick so he understood that he had less chance of catching it if the room was ventilated. He didn't want to catch it because he didn't want two weeks out of school if he got a positive test - BECAUSE HE LIKED BEING IN SCHOOL.

Don't make stuff up about other posters. I'll leave it there.

We saw the situation in Italy and implemented handwashing. We see the situation in America and plan to implement CO2 monitors.

@lannistunut

I am not giving the government anything other than a slow handclap here, but if they have finally cottoned on to the need to open windows that is some progress.

I was not expecting them to do this at all.

Yes assume the rollout will be slower than needed.

Not sure if you realise, but the information given to schools well before we came out of the first lockdown was all about ventilation in classrooms, and how to manage it. Because they knew about the virus being airborne. How we manage sitting 30 children in a classroom where the windows open all along one wall, and tables are up against that wall, I have no idea. Some children will be freezing!

I feel frustrated by them 'knowing' it is airborne, but not doing anything about the issue.

I work somewhere that was monitoring air exchange in Mar 2020, so it is hard to watch what is happening, or rather NOT happening, in schools.

@FromTheAshes who do you think will pay for the next step if the Government don’t?

Our local MAT has said that to bring the school buildings into a state to be fit for purpose would cost about £7 million. Not to make them amazing just fit for purpose, and this was pre-COVID. Never going to have that money, so the buildings will keep deteriorating. Some parents probably have very little idea how horrendous some school buildings are

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@FromTheAshes who do you think will pay for the next step if the Government don’t?

Our local MAT has said that to bring the school buildings into a state to be fit for purpose would cost about £7 million. Not to make them amazing just fit for purpose, and this was pre-COVID. Never going to have that money, so the buildings will keep deteriorating. Some parents probably have very little idea how horrendous some school buildings are[/quote]
Lots school still have asbestos in even.

Bit every school is spanking new.