Better late than never - CO2 monitors for classrooms in England

[lannistunut]

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/aug/21/classrooms-england-monitor-air-quality-effort-combat-covid-better-ventilation

Finally the government are taking the first step towards proper ventilation, frustratingly slow and late as ever, but every step forward is progress.

So does that mean every time one goes off, the class all has to troop out?

I mean, what good are they going to do, other than show the extent of the problem?

I don't see how this helps tbh. Great if you actually have windows to open

Wont be in time sadly.
Also if air quality not good what next.
OK class let's go teach outside in November!
Its like firealarms with no extinguisher and a short staffed fire service

Its a distraction to pacify unions.
It won't increase air quality.
No doubt one of gavins freinds decided to set up c02 monitor and sell to government at high price another thing to make profit off..

It means they are finally, slowly and painfully, waking up to it being airborne. The next step will be air purification/filters or better ventilation.

Any move away from sanitising hands and towards ventilation is progress.

We have the thickest government in Europe, they are so slow

Well yes, but mostly that article is a load of disingenuous tosh. They’ve only just realised Covid is airborne? The monitors will “reassure” people that (non-existent) ventilation is working? And what action can be taken if the alarm sounds? You can’t exactly transfer a Physics practical complete with Bunsen burners to the playground.
It’s a bit like installing fire alarms but having no fire extinguishers or fire drill.

Its like firealarms with no extinguisher and a short staffed fire service

If I had to choose between fire alarms or no fire alarms, I would choose fire alarms.

It is always better to know where there is a problem. Once unions know, they will be able to pressure for changes.

We have the thickest government in Europe, they are so slow

Agreed

"DfE saying all nurseries, schools and colleges are expected to receive at least partial allocations during the autumn term."

Am I reading that correctly as saying that some of what they need will arrive at some point before Christmas?

Sorry, actually that should be - some of what they need is expected to (not will) arrive at some point before Christmas?

My sons primary is small village school.
Reception Victorian and actually decent size.
Tiny hall for assembly and dinner.
Year 1/2 is an extension that very old its probably warmest classroom.
Class 3 4 and 5 all outdoor old portacabin terrapins they hot in summer and cold in winter.
The windows and fire exit door are always propped open

Eldest senior school mix very old build and new.
I'm fact different parts school different ages some hundreds years old.
The newest part is only art/ drama and gym.
I know lots senior school that are hodge podge different buildings.
Saw one senior school in Bath that had 4 different types buildings some portacabins.
Some school in Bristol are totally brand new build so maybe have better ventilation.

I am not giving the government anything other than a slow handclap here, but if they have finally cottoned on to the need to open windows that is some progress.

I was not expecting them to do this at all.

Yes assume the rollout will be slower than needed.

I work in a school and I don't think this will change anything. I can't see staff and students leaving the room everytime it goes off, and we already have windows and doors open as much as possible, so no way of increasing ventilation. Even if they manage to get them into every school / educational setting then I think it will be a pointless excersise, the monitor beeps, we all ignore it and carry on.

@Whinge

I work in a school and I don't think this will change anything. I can't see staff and students leaving the room everytime it goes off, and we already have windows and doors open as much as possible, so no way of increasing ventilation. Even if they manage to get them into every school / educational setting then I think it will be a pointless excersise, the monitor beeps, we all ignore it and carry on.

My thought was it would help to over ride the instinct to shut windows when it gets a bit chilly.

I was going to buy one of my own for the office.

The problem is you can;t see air quality. I think seeing the numbers might help.

Makes me sad how many people would rather do nothing than try - shouldn't say things are a pointless exercise before trying - why not see what info a CO2 monitor provides? It may show your school is OK for ventilation - I would be happy with that.

We can't just do out of sight out of mind forever.

Tbf my school took ventilation really seriously. We are lucky we have loads of windows and external doors in every class which we had to keep open at all times. Internal doors not allowed to be closed. The big fire doors kept wide open all day in the hall etc. Ppa room has no windows so it was locked and told to do ppa at home. The school bought HEPA air purification systems for every room. We still had loads and loads of cases in kids and staff. The nature of primary schools is the kids are right in each others faces all the time and staff have to get really close to help them. I don't see how a co2 monitor will help if you are in a classroom where you can't open the windows if it beeps.

lannistunut - totally agree with your posts. Being able to provide objective data is much more effective when you’re trying to get things changed.
‘We’re being expected to teach in rooms that are badly ventilated’ vs ‘we are being expected to teach in rooms with x times the safe level of CO2.’
‘School was really stuffy today Mum’ vs ‘Hey Mum, the CO2 alarm went off twice and the teacher just told us to carry on working!’

The latter of those is more likely to put pressure on head teachers/get parents up in arms. It doesn’t magically bring about change but it gives ammunition to people who are trying to make it happen.

My thought was it would help to over ride the instinct to shut windows when it gets a bit chilly.

And for those classrooms where the windows don't open?

I'm not trying to be negative. I just don't see how it will change anything. We already know some rooms have poor ventilation, adding a c02 monitor just tells us what we already know.

Next article will be:

"Only 1433 instances of the CO alarm going off reported therefore Schools. Are. Safe. And we don't need to do anything else."

I’ll be amazed if each and every classroom is provided with a monitor. We don’t even have enough money for class glue sticks for example. We have dept glue sticks and ‘book’ them out.

@Whinge

My thought was it would help to over ride the instinct to shut windows when it gets a bit chilly.

And for those classrooms where the windows don't open?

I'm not trying to be negative. I just don't see how it will change anything. We already know some rooms have poor ventilation, adding a c02 monitor just tells us what we already know.

This past year I taught my A-level class in a room without even a window.

There are lots of ways of increasing ventilation in old buildings. Airflow can be designed with air vortex circulators, or even completely retrofitted with mechanical ventilation heat recovery systems.

There's a lot more can be done than opening a window.

@lokomojo

There are lots of ways of increasing ventilation in old buildings. Airflow can be designed with air vortex circulators, or even completely retrofitted with mechanical ventilation heat recovery systems.

There's a lot more can be done than opening a window.

Other options such as those you mention sound great, but realistically they're not going to happen in schools. Opening doors and windows is pretty much all we have, and even then it's sometimes not possible, as highlighted by Motherrunner above.

It means they are finally, slowly and painfully, waking up to it being airborne.

No, it means that they're trying to shut the unions and parent groups up who have been on at them about them about how utterly inadequate they've been on the issue with schools and covid planning for September, but probably more importantly, even the Telegraph took the piss out of their suggestion that schools hold classes outside when covid is running riot.

The money for C02 monitors is nothing. They've not even started procurement of them, we won't be getting them any time soon, it'll be one per two classrooms when we do get them and all they will do is tell us a problem (poor ventilation in schools) that we already know is a problem.

If they actually wanted to do anything, they'd have provided schools with money to improve ventilation while waiting for the results of the air filter trial in 30 Bradford primary schools (which again, is just a way of them pretending they're doing something while spending as little money as possible).

This is so they have something to say when they're asked 'what are you doing about covid running through schools in September'?

I already have a monitor in my classroom as I work in medical needs school and they were put into all the rooms when it was built

It's amazing how quickly they shift from green to amber just by there being 12 people in the room so goodness knows how many times they will be going off in a mainstream class with 30+ people just being there

My room is as big as your average primary classroom and probably has much better ventilation

Air vortex circulators start at around £30.

If anyone thinks that the government actually gives a shit about ventilation, remember the contingency framework says that schools should consider improving ventilation by opening a window when there is clear evidence that covid is running riot in the school only if it isn't too cold.

If it's too cold, then bad luck, no open window for you.

So will the instructions on this monitor say that consideration should be given to thermal comfort if it goes off?