Better late than never - CO2 monitors for classrooms in England

[lannistunut]

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/aug/21/classrooms-england-monitor-air-quality-effort-combat-covid-better-ventilation

Finally the government are taking the first step towards proper ventilation, frustratingly slow and late as ever, but every step forward is progress.

We have had governments like this in the past. The mill owners had to be dragged kicking and screaming to introduce breaks, safety measures, age limits etc.

Any data will be useful, any movement at all is useful. Parents need to apply pressure, unions need to apply pressure.

My view is there are two options - accept nothing or keep pushing for something.

I don;t think the government will start to care about our children, no. But all you can do with a government like that is keep pushing because the other alternative is lie down and take it.

@noblegiraffe

I agree with your assessment of the government's lack of care, I have followed your threads etc., but for me any monitoring is better than nothing. Unless you genuinely believe that they will put the monitor next to the open window to deliver fake readings, of course.

@lannistunut

We have had governments like this in the past. The mill owners had to be dragged kicking and screaming to introduce breaks, safety measures, age limits etc.

Any data will be useful, any movement at all is useful. Parents need to apply pressure, unions need to apply pressure.

My view is there are two options - accept nothing or keep pushing for something.

I don;t think the government will start to care about our children, no. But all you can do with a government like that is keep pushing because the other alternative is lie down and take it.

You’re right but teachers fight all the time for our school community. The past year we have been vilified, labelled ‘obstructive’ and without a ‘can do’ attitude when we voice concerns and push for any measures (Covid or otherwise) to help our pupils.

I can’t help but be a little cynical about this ‘help’ we’re receiving.

Unless you genuinely believe that they will put the monitor next to the open window to deliver fake readings, of course.

This will absolutely happen in some places, on the explicit direction of leadership.

Unless you genuinely believe that they will put the monitor next to the open window to deliver fake readings, of course.

It could definitely happen, and not just as a way to make it seem as though conditions in the classroom are better than they actually are. I can see some schools doing it as a way to help reduce the amount of times it goes of, in order to help minimise disruption to lessons.

@motherrunner

I agree with all you say about teachers.

Somehow teachers need to get the (supportive) parents onside and get them lobbyng too. I don't know how we have got so fractured, but I want what teachers want - a decent school with decent equipment and decent outcomes.

I just can't lie down and accept this is as good as it gets for my kids

No, I don't believe they'll put the monitor next to a window. I think they will be genuinely used in schools once handed over.

But procurement for these monitors hasn't even started, they're going to start looking into suppliers on 23rd August. These things (as we know with the laptops) move slowly. They are going to prioritise special schools as they have more vulnerable pupils, which is good, but they also have far fewer pupils which is likely to mean fewer issues with C02 (although I have no idea about the special school estate, so happy to be corrected here if special school colleagues think ventilation is a major issue in their classrooms).

So we are looking at months until a delivery of these monitors. Once we get them and they inevitably start to go off, what then? A monitor that tells you your room is poorly ventilated (which we already knew) isn't a solution to that problem.

So the government will say what? We told you to open a window? And then it will be down to the union and parent groups to campaign again and say 'you gave us these monitors and now we can prove there's a problem, where's the money to fix it?'

Until some money to fix the problem actually arrives, I remain sceptical that there is any intention on the part of the government to spend a significant amount of money on schools.

This is just a kicking the can down the road exercise. And given that schools are going back in September with high infection levels and no mitigation measures, it's unlikely that covid is going to hang around waiting.

Surely it’d be better to put air purifiers (ones that have a virus setting as well as the usual pollen, pollution etc) in classrooms instead of devices that just measure the air quality?

Actually filter the air instead of merely measuring it...

Thing is, Allison, the government isn't sure that air purifiers work. This scepticism is presumably because air purifiers cost more money than C02 monitors.

So they are running a 'trial' of air purifiers in 30 primary schools in Bradford. No idea what their measure of success/failure will be.

@AllisoninWunderland

Surely it’d be better to put air purifiers (ones that have a virus setting as well as the usual pollen, pollution etc) in classrooms instead of devices that just measure the air quality?

Actually filter the air instead of merely measuring it...

Of course it would. But they’ll be more expensive. What we need is some enterprising crony of a government minister to corner the market in cheap air purifiers, then, bingo, we’ll have hundreds of thousands of them, even if only stuck in a warehouse near Felixstowe.

No, I don't believe they'll put the monitor next to a window. I think they will be genuinely used in schools once handed over.

I am glad you think this.

I know we are moving at glacial pace, but we are going to have covid forever, and I can't just give up and accept the shit the government is asking us to put up with.

My thought was it would help to over ride the instinct to shut windows when it gets a bit chilly.

So when Winter comes and the children and staff are absolutely freezing, working with coats and gloves on because they’ve got to keep windows open, you think that’s acceptable?

We've been told to shut the windows when it gets chilly by the government. Consideration for thermal comfort is more important than mitigating the spread of covid.

Of course they could give money to schools for more heating...

I know we are moving at glacial pace, but we are going to have covid forever, and I can't just give up and accept the shit the government is asking us to put up with

But this is an excellent example of 'shit the government is asking us to put up with'

It's pure pisstaking on their part.

What am I supposed to do if it goes off? Smash out the windows?

Our new building in 2010 had them in every class. They light up every single lesson unless every window is open and the door too-but you can’t do that because there’s teaching in the common areas outside. Box ticking exercise.

@noblegiraffe

I know we are moving at glacial pace, but we are going to have covid forever, and I can't just give up and accept the shit the government is asking us to put up with

But this is an excellent example of 'shit the government is asking us to put up with'

It's pure pisstaking on their part.

This may sound snippy but is genuinely meant - what would you have me do?

• I write to my MP
• I write to my school with suggestions - some are taken up (I have a good school and good relationship)
• I send supportive emails to my child's teachers at every opportunity
• I lobby other parents (to the limits of annoying them!)

I want these monitors in my school because then i can ask my school what the monitors are saying.

I understand that people are downbeat - but what would people have me do? Because the two choices I seem to be being offered are:
a) pretend it is all fine
b) sit in futile rage

Neither of which works for me emotionally or, crucially, makes me feel I am doing anything for my children.

I want these monitors in my school because then i can ask my school what the monitors are saying.

You can ask, but I would be surprised if they tell you what they say. We know ventilation in some rooms is shit. It's shit regardless of a C02 monitor being in the room. Unfortunately having one in the classroom Is unlikely to change anything.

@lannistunut

I want these monitors in my school because then i can ask my school what the monitors are saying.

They’ll just say, yes, they’re going off but there’s nothing more we can do. What do you expect? You’re living in cloud cuckoo land.

[quote LadyPenelope68]@lannistunut

I want these monitors in my school because then i can ask my school what the monitors are saying.

They’ll just say, yes, they’re going off but there’s nothing more we can do. What do you expect? You’re living in cloud cuckoo land.[/quote]
Wow.

I just don't feel that powerless. I am used to politics and things taking a long time but it seems people feel there is no hope even trying.

I do not see how I am living in cloud cuckoo land when all I think is I will then be able to write to my MP about the fact the monitors are going off indicating that we need ventilation.

In five years we may have proper ventilation, surely if we all acceot the staus quo we will have no improvement ever?

I have been out of active politics for some time, I always experienced apathy on the doorsteps of course but now it feels much more widespread, much deeper.

I understand that people are downbeat

I think anger at the government is a better response than 'thank you kindly sir for this breadcrumb'.

It keeps up the momentum.

Maybe my belief that things can change is how I stop myself jumping of a bridge, I probably need to stay deluded

@noblegiraffe

I understand that people are downbeat

I think anger at the government is a better response than 'thank you kindly sir for this breadcrumb'.

It keeps up the momentum.

I am not grateful for the breadcrumb really, I am angry.

So what would you rather I do as a parent?

The monitors will help me to get specifically angry rather than generally angry, was my thinking.

In five years we may have proper ventilation

New school buildings will not be fitted with sprinklers against the advice of numerous safety bodies who are outraged. New schools will also be fitted with Grenfell-style cladding.

The assumption that if you have proof there's a problem then this will lead to absolutely anything happening to solve it is not backed up by evidence.

Hopefully in 5 years time we'll have a different government.

U4T dont want their children to be cold. The govt listens to them before the unions. No point in CO2 monitors if we're not allowed to open the windows in winter.