NZ back into lockdown.

[Malin52]

1 case in the community. All of NZ back into lockdown Level 4 because no link to border found.

Hard and fast.

Serious question, did NZ media not criticise the approach of any other country? Know full well that people from there on here critisied the UK approach, don't remember people getting arsey about it mind, most people from here agreed that it had been handled terribly here.

A quick Google says yes! I'm sure that shouldn't be allowed though - they should not talk about their colonial masters in that way.

(for the avoidance of doubt the above is sarcasm! )

@50ShadesOfCatholic

It's such a pity that we can't have a civilised discussion. So may posters so eager to kick each other especially when the chips are down. Surely we can do better than this?

It isn't a competition. None of us is singly responsive for how the pandemic has panned out where we live.

I have dual UK/NZ citizenship and have felt incredibly sad for family and friends in the UK living through such long lockdowns and all that goes with it. I absolutely appreciate that I have been spared that.

But it pisses me off how fucking condescending so many British posters are on the NZ and Australian threads. It really does smack of arrogance and the attitude of colonialism. It's not cool.

Unless you live here and are educated about colonial-induced racism, you cannot appreciate how terrible the reality has been for generations of Māori and Pasifika peoples. Please don't minimise that. It runs through every thread of life here and has caused indescribable pain and trauma.

It is deeply apparent in COVID 19 management in that Māori and Pasifika people are, generally speaking, more reluctant to be vaccinated. History has taught them that the govt is the enemy.

So forgive us for having little patience for the thinly veiled racism, xenophobia and patronising crap directed at New Zealanders. We're over it - and it is tedious having discussions derailed.

Back to original discussion, day 2 of lockdown. How long do we (locals) think we are in for? Given that most of the original cases attend super spreader events I'm guessing it's going to be a while.

We were criticised by many so no this is not thinly disguised anything.

The countless critical threads re U.K. throughout pandemic

On what are you doing now to resolve issues of trust for Māori and Pasifika people?

I can understand your approach now. However next stage won’t definitely keep virus out so risk could increase.

OK. Let me get this straight.

It's people in UK (many who may have parents, grandparents, or further back that were born elsewhere) that have an attitude that is as a result of colonialism.

This is mainly coming from people who have emigrated from the UK to NZ. Good for you if that's what you want, buy your emigration has had more impact on the indigenous population than me who is in the UK!

I don't want NZ to fail. I think they got things right in NZ. I do think they should have been more proactive with vaccines. I do think they may have been successful keeping Covid out with previous variants. I do think they will now have a constant battle until they have enough people vaccinated. I do think that no matter what happens now, there will inevitably be a significant exit wave that will be difficult to mange. I don't think the above has been fully recognised by many on here.

Of course I hope I'm wrong.

None of the above has anything to do with my colonial attitude.

We had posters on here saying USA weren't going to have a Delta wave like the UK, especially in places where the vaccine rate was high. Our lived experience was dismissed much in the same way as it is here.

It's not colonial to have lived experience. My thoughts on Delta are shaped from the last few months. It's hearing of people dying in India (and I don't mean on the BBC), it's hearing of family and friends having Covid. People who had been full or part vaccinated. Its hearing of one who is in hospital with the virus. It's seeing on the ground how quickly this thing spreads, even in a highly vaccinated population.

You may say that's just colonial arrogance- fine. I don't really give a flying fuck!

But spouting all about colonialism isn't going to rid you of Covid.

The colonialist attitude thing is bizarre. I doubt anyone feels those links are there except a few from NZ by the sounds of it.

Talking about how badly U.K. has done for over a year - no problem

Talking about NZ at all — come on to primarily UK based site and get angry

The other thing about deferring constantly to colonialism is a cop out. The issues Aus / NZ have right now with indigenous populations have nothing to do with U.K. and looking back constantly won’t help you resolve it now.

[quote shiningcuckoo]@SuperFairy I love the Peak District. Was my closet NP when growing up and used to go with my grandparents. The difference here is the delicate state of our environment and the protection of native species. The Department of Conservation is very active. Also as all of our visitors fly here at great cost, it's not too much to expect that they have the means to contribute towards the work of DoC and the local economy. [/quote]
There's no "difference". Amazingly we don't like people shitting on our beaches and dropping litter everywhere either, which happened a lot when lockdown was lifted. We don't mind tourists in vans though,or trying to do things very cheaply.

The issues Aus / NZ have right now with indigenous populations have nothing to do with U.K

There comes a moment in every online debate when you have to make a decision - do I have the emotional energy to correct another poster's extreme and offensive ignorance?

I will say this though. I hadn't weighed into the colonial angle of this thread yet, but -with that statement - I think PPs who have accused UK posters of acting like colonial overlords have just been proven right

FWIW I am neither in the NZ or the UK. If that's relevant ...

@IslandSnow

The issues Aus / NZ have right now with indigenous populations have nothing to do with U.K

There comes a moment in every online debate when you have to make a decision - do I have the emotional energy to correct another poster's extreme and offensive ignorance?

I will say this though. I hadn't weighed into the colonial angle of this thread yet, but -with that statement - I think PPs who have accused UK posters of acting like colonial overlords have just been proven right

I am an Aussie so do I have the emotional reaction to your name calling

You cannot keep referring to the past the issues you have now are for you to resolve.

You cannot keep talking about poor trust and not accept it’s for you to change.

The U.K. now has nothing to do with it.

@IslandSnow

FWIW I am neither in the NZ or the UK. If that's relevant ...

Not really.

Still an insulting post.

There comes a moment in every online debate when you have to make a decision - do I have the emotional energy to correct another poster's extreme and offensive ignorance?

But to assume all posters in the UK are white, British and have no knowledge of Māori and Pasifika is comparable extreme and offensive ignorance.

Talking about how badly U.K. has done for over a year - no problem

Exactly, including most people in the UK, I can't recall any threads actually where anyone felt we had done a good job, if there were they were vastly outnumbered by how crap it was. The defensiveness makes me wonder whether perhaps the approach that was very much celebrated and wow wish we had done that ain't looking so good now.

Of course we now have nothing to do with it and it is NZ`s problem to resolve.

It's just a convenient way to UK bash!

We have plenty of problems in the UK that I wouldn't expect @IslandSnow to care about or be an expert on either, not sure why we are supposed to take responsibility for NZ

I don’t want to derail the thread but the colonial argument is back to front. Surely it’s the former Europeans living in NZ now that are the colonists not those living in the U.K.?
So my aunt (and her subsequent children) who emigrated to NZ in the 1950’s is more responsible for the disadvantages Maori face now than my mother (and me) who have never lived there.
It’s up to NZ themselves if they want to become a republic and remove the Queen as head of state, change the NZ flag, restructure Royal institutions without the Queen etc
There are signs that this is happening though such as slowly changing the name New Zealand to Aotearoa which I think is great. So moving to a more Maori / Asia centred country and away from looking towards the U.K./ europe. NZ newsites do probably follow the U.K. too much but that’s not the fault of the U.K. It’s the fault of NZ websites/ journalists. NZ websites are full of BBC stories and telegraph/ times and US too etc maybe a cost thing.
It’s an interesting discussion for sure but definitely one ultimately for NZ to have themselves.
I can certainly agree that having another countries Queen as your head of state ( even if she has no actual power and never interferes ) is strange when you think about it so I completely understand why many in NZ want to change it .

Yes agree @sashagabadon

Surely it’s the former Europeans living in NZ now that are the colonists not those living in the U.K.?

I've been sat on my hands not posting this. Could you explain to a poor Brit how these people are not the victors of colonialism please? And do the Māori and Pasifika people appreciate you identifying into their oppression, which leaves them vastly disadvantaged in terms of wealth and health outcomes?

I think the answer is that power structures take a long time to change. So European settlers back in the day set up systems to benefit themselves and their descendants and at the expense of the indigenous people.

And those structures are more or less still in place. As they are hard to dismantle as it involves a complete restructure of society really and I imagine most politicians are still European descent. I am not sure of Jacinda’s heritage but I assume European not Maori?
Anyway, I think that is the reason why change is slow as those in power do not actually really want change as it suits them the way it is now. That’s the case all over the world though , patriarchy innit!
I think though that blaming the former “ mother country” ( not my words) is a convenient excuse to keep things like they are as much as possible as if people really really wanted to make change there is nothing stopping them now. Over time though it will change naturally and maybe that is the best way to do it anyway.
Just my POV, I am sure others have a different perspective.

Sasha I agree. The colonialism argument and pointing back to U.K. is a hood way not to change.

This pandemic will force Aus and NZ to not just talk about how bad it is (due to a long time back) but do something to repair trust issues.

There’s been time before this - but now more urgency.

[quote SueblueNZ]@PinkTonic ~ have to agree with you. Pity Jacinda didn't apply her fairydust "let's do this" to seeing that NZ's vaccine orders were well-managed and there were/are sufficient MIQ spaces.
@Terhou ~ NZ did indeed pay "furlough" (called the government wage subsidy) last year and is doing so again for businesses who can prove a 40% loss of income in areas subject to a 7 day (or longer) lock down.[/quote]
My point on furlough is, fairly obviously, that NZ hasn't had to pay out for furlough and similar for months on end. For what it's worth, it also hasn't had the same financial hit in terms of loss of production when businesses are locked down. That was purely secondary to my main point, which you have ignored, which is why the NZ government hasn't provided more quarantine facilities given the major difficulty this is causing people who have very valid reasons for wanting to leave the country temporarily.

And I think the power structure in NZ parliament with a prime minister and Queen as head of state is obviously based on the English system of power structure and it’s a strong system that’s been in place for what 1000 years and is a good structure generally. Brexit tested it but it survived!
So if you are going to change it, what to? The US system? The French system? You have to carefully think. It’s not just a case of removing the Queen and changing the flag. It’s the entire political/ governance structure. It’s hard / expensive/ complicated/ disruptive to do unless everyone is on board.

You have to carefully think. It’s not just a case of removing the Queen and changing the flag.

Thank goodness for Mumsnetters here to point stuff out for us.

P.S.

You could look towards Asia for structure system but Asia also has monarchs with a lot more power than our Queen has. What about China? But that’s a directorship really. Maybe Japan? It’s very interesting and not an easy decision, You need an alternative system of governance to sell to the people as they have to live under it!

@LimeRedBanana

You have to carefully think. It’s not just a case of removing the Queen and changing the flag.

Thank goodness for Mumsnetters here to point stuff out for us.

P.S.

Not really that funny.

Interesting though - maybe you’re easily amused.

It’s just a discussion Lime
I’m not suggesting Jacinda reads my posts on Mumsnet for ideas.

I am indeed easily amused.

‘You have to carefully think’ is a bit of a corker.

And yes, indeed, China - certainly a model for us to consider!