NZ back into lockdown.

[Malin52]

1 case in the community. All of NZ back into lockdown Level 4 because no link to border found.

Hard and fast.

PinkTonic & MapleMay - do your family / friends not read the news? A roadmap to opening the border and to managing covid longterm has been talked about in detail over the last several months. It's been covered by all major news outlets, as well as the fact that we won't be able to vaccinate to 97%. There is not universal love for our PM (which seems to run in line with political affiliation), so their sentiments don't surprise me, but the idea we're not prepared to manage covid / haven't thought through the end game is a pretty out of touch. Most people I know are preparing to live with covid, it's just a matter of when and giving vaccination the best chance to limit the fallout.

@Nerfballs Based on the current evidence and vaccine coverage rates, they don't believe that what has been proposed is viable.

@Planesandflying

QueenHofScotland

You totally underestimate how NZ's isolated position and tiny population enabled them to do what they did. Good for them but it was easy. We are the international travel and economic hub of Europe, the idea that we could just 'close' for 18 months is utterly ludicrous. Can't believe people still trot this argument out..

I am not underestimating anything. I know that there are differences and that this will impact the outcome.

But I don’t believe that this is the only reason we have far more deaths. We didn’t act fast enough. Boris was boasting about shaking hands while scientists looked on in horror.

We could have done more. The care home deaths alone make that quite clear.

Fair enough, but a lot of others think otherwise, including health professionals and specialists who have access to all the info. They've done pretty well so far, so I'll go with their plan. And if it goes to hell, well it'd be no different to pretty much anywhere else. At least they've given us a fighting shot.

I agree with you @QueenHofScotland, there isn’t even an argument about benefit of hindsight, there were calls from a variety of sources at the time to act and a different course was chosen. Hobson’s choice perhaps but we can’t pretend that it wasn’t a completely viable choice on the table.

That’s part of leadership, accountability, not white washing to suit.

Well, the one thing that is clear is that here in the UK we are just further along the process. We’ve been through lots of the psychological and systemic stages of this thing. Currently we are at a place where both vaccines and community spread are jointly building up our immunity - we have come to tolerate a certain level of cases and deaths. Our health system is strained but coping (winter may change that…). I work in a hospital so see it from the inside, the levels of Covid and how they impact non-Covid operations.

I think what fascinates some of us is watching you in NZ at what appears to be the beginning of this process, particularly psychologically. We have been through lockdown fatigue, lord knows the last lockdown at the beginning of this year was HARD. We’ve been through those stages of fear of Covid, anger (at our government and sometimes at those around us who we felt weren’t being responsible enough), the recriminations, the acceptance of a certain level of hospitalisation and death rates.

You can see from what’s happening here that Delta will spread, even with high vaccine take-up. So that means you in NZ will have to go through those some of the same psychological stages. What is being done to prepare the population for the reality of that? And how sure are you that your health system will cope when Covid comes? These are genuine questions.

Finally, tbh for me Australia and NZ are a bit of a side show. The big question is, how will China cope long term with this? Their current strategy also seems unsustainable. That’s another thread though 🙂

PS totally agree with PPs who say we have put in our time here in the UK and ‘leant in’, as it were. Anyone who doesn’t believe that is being rude, frankly.

@samsalmon

Well, the one thing that is clear is that here in the UK we are just further along the process. We’ve been through lots of the psychological and systemic stages of this thing. Currently we are at a place where both vaccines and community spread are jointly building up our immunity - we have come to tolerate a certain level of cases and deaths. Our health system is strained but coping (winter may change that…). I work in a hospital so see it from the inside, the levels of Covid and how they impact non-Covid operations.

I think what fascinates some of us is watching you in NZ at what appears to be the beginning of this process, particularly psychologically. We have been through lockdown fatigue, lord knows the last lockdown at the beginning of this year was HARD. We’ve been through those stages of fear of Covid, anger (at our government and sometimes at those around us who we felt weren’t being responsible enough), the recriminations, the acceptance of a certain level of hospitalisation and death rates.

You can see from what’s happening here that Delta will spread, even with high vaccine take-up. So that means you in NZ will have to go through those some of the same psychological stages. What is being done to prepare the population for the reality of that? And how sure are you that your health system will cope when Covid comes? These are genuine questions.

Finally, tbh for me Australia and NZ are a bit of a side show. The big question is, how will China cope long term with this? Their current strategy also seems unsustainable. That’s another thread though 🙂

PS totally agree with PPs who say we have put in our time here in the UK and ‘leant in’, as it were. Anyone who doesn’t believe that is being rude, frankly.

Great post.

@samsalmon

Well, the one thing that is clear is that here in the UK we are just further along the process. We’ve been through lots of the psychological and systemic stages of this thing. Currently we are at a place where both vaccines and community spread are jointly building up our immunity - we have come to tolerate a certain level of cases and deaths. Our health system is strained but coping (winter may change that…). I work in a hospital so see it from the inside, the levels of Covid and how they impact non-Covid operations.

I think what fascinates some of us is watching you in NZ at what appears to be the beginning of this process, particularly psychologically. We have been through lockdown fatigue, lord knows the last lockdown at the beginning of this year was HARD. We’ve been through those stages of fear of Covid, anger (at our government and sometimes at those around us who we felt weren’t being responsible enough), the recriminations, the acceptance of a certain level of hospitalisation and death rates.

You can see from what’s happening here that Delta will spread, even with high vaccine take-up. So that means you in NZ will have to go through those some of the same psychological stages. What is being done to prepare the population for the reality of that? And how sure are you that your health system will cope when Covid comes? These are genuine questions.

Finally, tbh for me Australia and NZ are a bit of a side show. The big question is, how will China cope long term with this? Their current strategy also seems unsustainable. That’s another thread though 🙂

PS totally agree with PPs who say we have put in our time here in the UK and ‘leant in’, as it were. Anyone who doesn’t believe that is being rude, frankly.

Yes, a very good post thank you.

How about the UK and other countries that have just let covid run crazy and pass to other countries through travellers without imposing ACTUAL lockdowns where people aren’t allowed to leave the house? 🤣 how have you been helping the world get on top of the pandemic?

How have the UK been helping the world get on top of the pandemic?

Is this a joke?

I think what fascinates some of us is watching you in NZ at what appears to be the beginning of this process, particularly psychologically. We have been through lockdown fatigue, lord knows the last lockdown at the beginning of this year was HARD. We’ve been through those stages of fear of Covid, anger (at our government and sometimes at those around us who we felt weren’t being responsible enough), the recriminations, the acceptance of a certain level of hospitalisation and death rates.

You can see from what’s happening here that Delta will spread, even with high vaccine take-up. So that means you in NZ will have to go through those some of the same psychological stages. What is being done to prepare the population for the reality of that? And how sure are you that your health system will cope when Covid comes? These are genuine questions.

Yes, this is what I am interested in as well, as NZ is a country that has done basically the opposite to the UK.

Jacinda Ardern has spent the last 18 months telling her country that they will pursue zero Covid, that they will do whatever it takes to keep Covid out and ensure that no one gets it.

At some point, when enough people are vaccinated, she is going to have to go back on that promise. She is going to have to tell the country that some people will get Covid and that, yes, some people will die of Covid. I just don't get what the exit strategy is for New Zealand?

Boris gave his 'its inevitable that some of you are gonna die' speech last March. As @samsalmon says, psychologically, the UK has already come through what NZ will have to go through, even if its a lesser extent for NZ.

How have the UK been helping the world get on top of the pandemic?

Oh I don't know. Vaccines maybe? Identifying variants? Contributing to Covax?

At some point, when enough people are vaccinated, she is going to have to go back on that promise. She is going to have to tell the country that some people will get Covid and that, yes, some people will die of Covid

She will, yes.

What NZ did was bet the farm on highly efficacious vaccines being available quite soon. That didn’t entirely pay off as the vaccines aren’t quite efficacious enough.

I guess that’s going to have to be good enough though, particularly as by the time NZ looks at opening up, we’ll be nearly two years into this and many other countries will be well into their ‘living with covid’ phases.

Public acceptance of covid waves/some deaths will grow

This shit again. You guys wore mandatory masks, you were in lockdown forever. You fucking clapped for your nhs. Posts after posts about what a fuck up Boris was, no face to face gp's, can't see a dentist, people flocking to holiday areas to escape, dobbing in your neighbours for breaking rules, ambulances not available, schools closed, no graduations blah blah blah.

You guys were a shambles. Who on earth do you think you are to criticise any one? Literally no one is looking to the uk for guidance and following your shining light.

@againreallyplase

This shit again. You guys wore mandatory masks, you were in lockdown forever. You fucking clapped for your nhs. Posts after posts about what a fuck up Boris was, no face to face gp's, can't see a dentist, people flocking to holiday areas to escape, dobbing in your neighbours for breaking rules, ambulances not available, schools closed, no graduations blah blah blah.

You guys were a shambles. Who on earth do you think you are to criticise any one? Literally no one is looking to the uk for guidance and following your shining light.

I’m in the U.K. and couldn’t agree more

@againreallyplase

This shit again. You guys wore mandatory masks, you were in lockdown forever. You fucking clapped for your nhs. Posts after posts about what a fuck up Boris was, no face to face gp's, can't see a dentist, people flocking to holiday areas to escape, dobbing in your neighbours for breaking rules, ambulances not available, schools closed, no graduations blah blah blah.

You guys were a shambles. Who on earth do you think you are to criticise any one? Literally no one is looking to the uk for guidance and following your shining light.

Noone is saying you should be looking to us as an example of how to handle Covid are they? I agree, we really suffered and the government were shit.

I am really proud of our vaccine development and contribution to Covax though. And I guess any country who gets vaccinated without producing or developing any vaccines themselves should also feel grateful, not just to the UK, but all the other countries who risked everything on vaccine development so that other countries could feel the benefit.

@againreallyplase

This shit again. You guys wore mandatory masks, you were in lockdown forever. You fucking clapped for your nhs. Posts after posts about what a fuck up Boris was, no face to face gp's, can't see a dentist, people flocking to holiday areas to escape, dobbing in your neighbours for breaking rules, ambulances not available, schools closed, no graduations blah blah blah.

You guys were a shambles. Who on earth do you think you are to criticise any one? Literally no one is looking to the uk for guidance and following your shining light.

Fair.

I’m in the U.K. and couldn’t agree more

I’m in the U.K. and think it is sounds ridiculously misplaced.

Usual self congratulatory stuff over a virus which of course is going to hit countries differently depending on getting geography.

All part of the doing it better bollocks

i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126098610/covid19-nz-how-viable-is-new-zealands-coronavirus-elimination-plan-in-the-time-of-delta

Both strategies, elimination and suppression are equal gambles. NZ has also gambled and it’s citizens are guinea pigs just as much as we are here in the U.K..
It’s just not often framed that way although this is beginning to change.
We have all basically bet the farm on vaccines and we’re all very lucky to have some that work within less than a year even if they do not work perfectly, they still work better than hoped.
The U.K. strategy is paying off now in 2021 after a tough 2020 in a post vaccine world as we also have some natural immunity and threw money at developing and procuring and preparing the logistics of the roll out very early but if the vaccines had perfect efficacy and if NZ had got their orders in early and even better set up on shore manufacturing, they’d be in a great place now.
Patrick Vallance said back in March 2020 80% of us would catch Covid (or be immunised against it) and I was shocked by that but he was right.

I am really proud of our vaccine development and contribution to Covax though. And I guess any country who gets vaccinated without producing or developing any vaccines themselves should also feel grateful, not just to the UK, but all the other countries who risked everything on vaccine development so that other countries could feel the benefit

Pride is a strange emotion to subscribe to vaccine development. 99.999% of us had precisely f-all to do with the development of vaccines.

I am really proud of our vaccine development and contribution to Covax though. And I guess any country who gets vaccinated without producing or developing any vaccines themselves should also feel grateful, not just to the UK, but all the other countries who risked everything on vaccine development so that other countries could feel the benefit.

It’s a shame doing it better has come to mean this ‘we locked down better’ stuff rather than actually thinking why those countries can open up now.

@againreallyplase

This shit again. You guys wore mandatory masks, you were in lockdown forever. You fucking clapped for your nhs. Posts after posts about what a fuck up Boris was, no face to face gp's, can't see a dentist, people flocking to holiday areas to escape, dobbing in your neighbours for breaking rules, ambulances not available, schools closed, no graduations blah blah blah.

You guys were a shambles. Who on earth do you think you are to criticise any one? Literally no one is looking to the uk for guidance and following your shining light.

Yeah it was pretty shit at times in 2020. Really brought out the worst in people. 2021 has been a lot better.

Looking at the threads now, it seems like NZ / Aus could get to that same place if they can't get cases to 0.

You have seen it so much, especially the Aus threads. People blaming others, commenting on different level of lockdowns.

At least NZ is in proper lockdown has been a comment ......

It's the same all over again. FFS don't try and emulate our mistakes, but don't make things as bad as they were in the UK.

It wasn't nice. The UK has moved on from it and we are in a better place thank god. Probably it being so shit early has helped.

Pride is a strange emotion to subscribe to vaccine development. 99.999% of us had precisely f-all to do with the development of vaccines

If you pay tax in the UK you did.

It’s a shame doing it better has come to mean this ‘we locked down better’ stuff

Exactly. This seems to be the left wing take on it, which I find bizarre.

Vaccine development was an enormous step forward. Elimination strategies would only ever be effective long term if the entire world was successful in implementing them. Given how unlikely that was, vaccines were the only viable way out.

I find it strange that a certain cohort absolutely refuse to acknowledge the importance of the work that was done in the U.K. and other countries at the forefront of creating and testing the vaccines.

@Bryonyshcmyony

Pride is a strange emotion to subscribe to vaccine development. 99.999% of us had precisely f-all to do with the development of vaccines

If you pay tax in the UK you did.

That’s stretching it. There was no democratic decision making involved in the decision to back covid vaccine development.

I suppose if you voted Tory prior to the pandemic you could claim some pride in choosing leadership that would invest in vaccines but I suspect any of the big three would of anyway.

It’s like being proud bins are collected. We pay what we’re told to and someone else does the planning, spending and actual work.

I’m grateful that I live in a society where we largely agree these things are important but none of the pride in things going well is mine to flaunt.