Australia in a mess - NZ with a plan

[StartupRepair]

More than half of Australia is in lockdown now, sparked (imo) by the intransigence of the NSW Premier who ignored all warnings about Delta. Our procurement of and messaging around vaccines has been dangerously incompetent.
It all feels a bit bleak today. At least NZ seems to have a plan.

Yes the UK was opening up from April to July starting with schools and ending with international travel. I though Australia was going to wait and open everything at once I may have misunderstood.

Sorry I thought everything domestically at 70% and international travel at 80%.

I think some schools went back in March? I’m not sure partly because I wasn’t here then so that may be wrong but I think the youngest started going back in March.

8 March

Interesting article in SMH today
www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/what-do-you-think-you-re-doing-sydneysiders-stung-for-eating-outside-20210824-p58lj0.html

Couple fined for eating their food which was purchased at eastern suburbs market, and another couple fined in the same area for drinking their coffee (both food and drink were of course takeaway from vendors that we permitted to be open). Summary: difficult line to be drawn between recreation and exercise based activities.

The comments are entertaining, as usual!

@newstart1234

Sorry I thought everything domestically at 70% and international travel at 80%.

It's more complicated than "opening up". Eg around traveller caps. And schools are not closed because of vax levels. They're closed in hotspots.

In QLD, even now, everything is running as "normal" as it is in uk as far as I can see. Apart from masks indoors where you can't distance. Schools are open etc. we have no cases. So the main restriction is around travel.

There is a detailed 4 phase plan for the loosening of restrictions which will give you the detail if you would like to look it up.

@disco123

I mean in an ideal world everyone would be able to have their choice of vaccine but the reality is that supplies are limited so Pfizer has been allocated for the people who are least likely to have complications from it.

I'm not sure if there's many places where people have been offered a choice, maybe in the USA?

I know in the UK there was no choice, and (anecdotally again) if people had been able to choose then a fair few would have chosen Pfizer over AZ.

No. We didn't have have choice in the UK. You didn't 'know' what vaccine you were getting when you booked although you could often work out.

But UK didn't have the problems with AZ and even when the blood clots became apparent, the messaging was still really clear surrounding AZ.

I do realise that Oz was vaccinating at a different time and with Zero Covid but the messaging has been awful.

The country had a stockpile of AZ when thus wave began and had given away some vaccine also.

You need to get those most vulnerable vaccinated 1st and if they refuse to take AZ then surely you need to react and do something?

On the guardian website I’ve just read of the 1100 or so Delta variant covid deaths between feb and August this year, 57% were double jabbed. (Strongly emphasised that vaccines are effective and that figure is not an indication the vaccine doesn’t work rather it shows it doesn’t always work but it’s better than nothing!) it makes the Doherty institute projection seem a tad optimistic. Also I underestimated Australia’s population by about have so if it follows the British trend then a 6 month figure would be more like 7000. I don’t know how they got 1500 but I might look it up.

Apols disco I was talking about nsw where there is a stay at home order, night curfew and fines for eating on the street. Not normal but yes it seems that Covid has divided Australia along state lines to quite an extreme.

@Ozgirl75

I honestly don’t know how people in their 60s+ have managed to avoid getting jabbed - they’ve been able to for 5 months and were a priority for about 3 months, along with health staff, aged care staff etc. The full rollout didn’t start until about 2 months ago. The rest of Australia can’t be held back because some people who were in a priority group decided not to bother to get vaccinated. I know that’s harsh, but we’ve been vaccinating for months. I had my flu jab back in April and even my local GP surgery we’re jabbing priority only people (because I asked if they would do me and they said no, priority only).

But they were only offered AZ? The vaccination that was shit and noone wanted? I am paraphrasing btw as I think its very good and it's what I got.

If there is a problem vaccinating the most vulnerable community, they really should have sorted that out. They clearly didn't.

I wonder if any of those in the NSW outbreak died because they were waiting for Pfizer?

It's possible, but obviously (to most people) that was a very risky choice in the middle of an outbreak. That would be very sad but ultimately you cannot force people to get vaccinated.

I think people are now realising that it's not sensible to delay, given that all the reported deaths seem to be unvaccinated/not fully vaxxed.

Gladys message re vaccines is the best vaccine you can have is the one which is available to you now. Do not wait, book and take the apt you are able to get tomorrow.

I have seen news stories of older people waiting for Pfizer but it's been stated very clearly they will be last in line behind the younger population.

I would certainly like to see the approval arrive for 5-12 yo.

The 79/80% is based on over 16s but I wouldn't be surprised if they move the goalposts and include 12-15 in those figures.

The take up seems to be about 85% in the 60 + age group. I’m genuinely shocked how low this is. It’s around 97-98% in Denmark, probably the same in UK. Is this just people waiting for the Pfizer? Across Europe the take up is lower down the age groups. I wonder whether Australia will buck this trend. If not the whole plan is in jeopardy.

@beingsunny

Gladys message re vaccines is the best vaccine you can have is the one which is available to you now. Do not wait, book and take the apt you are able to get tomorrow.

I have seen news stories of older people waiting for Pfizer but it's been stated very clearly they will be last in line behind the younger population.

I would certainly like to see the approval arrive for 5-12 yo.

The 79/80% is based on over 16s but I wouldn't be surprised if they move the goalposts and include 12-15 in those figures.

That's the message now!

But this was foreseeable. Perhaps not inevitable bit definitely foreseeable.

It's not the messaging now that is the issue.

It's what's gone beforehand that really is important re the messaging, when the vaccinations would have had the most impact.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/22/nsw-government-has-only-used-15-of-its-allocation-of-the-astrazeneca-vaccine

Well, regardless of what should or shouldn't have been done in the past, this is where we are now.

For those worried about Australia, is there anything different that you would actually like to be done NOW?

As now is the only time in which we can act.

is there anything different that you would actually like to be done NOW

1. Improve the vaccine drive for vulnerable, which includes all over-50s as well as indigenous people; phonecalls from GPs, vaccine buses etc. It is not only your indigenous people at risk (and very few kids will be at risk, regardless of other medical conditions). It is your unvaccinated over 50s who will cause the highest effort in hospitals.
2. Prepare your hospitals and remote medical services like you've never done before; when you open up there will be cases despite vaccines and they need to be really ready for that. I've seen nothing to indicate that they are prepared, quite the opposite if reports from Sydney and Dubbo are accurate. All staff need to be up to date on holiday breaks, far more PPE than you can imagine, loads of oxygen in every remote area, backup support for solo medics, lots of extra ICU beds etc etc.
3. Let kids go back to school; close groups for cases but otherwise reduce the excessive damage to their education and health
4. Only have useful rules relating to masks and ventilation for indoor spaces, plus more distancing in workplaces; closing playgrounds, masks on beaches etc won't reduce spread, all it does is reduce goodwill for when you'll really need it later, because you will need more restrictions when you open up. At the same time, do not let everyone go into each other's homes if that's still happening, that's how it spreads best.

I’d also do home quarantine for vaccinated Aussies and family coming from abroad.

Oh yes, agree.
Also, allow people to leave the country if they wish and simply open up more paid-for facilities to check on them when they return, Australian government statements really shouldn't sound the same as the Taliban.

@Wakeupin2022 absolutely, I was just giving context as to what's happening now. 3 months ago there's no way I would have been comfortable having the AZ vaccine, but I've seen Pfizer ineligible friends going out now for it because that's the option for them or wait until October for their Pfizer apt.

My exh and his partner can't get apts until then, she is 40, he is 42. They were both vaccine hesitant, she more so as they have been ttc for a couple of years now.

I'm not sure how best to move forward for the older generation.

@MRex

1. is being done
2. ICU capacity has been increased. Future lockdowns will be based on local hospital capacity. So even at 70/80, IF there is any danger of being overwhelmed, local measures will be put in place.
3. kids are in school unless they're in a current outbreak. Letting covid spread uncontrolled in schools would be an extremely BAD idea right now and would result in unnecessary deaths
4. I agree only necessary measures should be in place, but id rather err on the side of too strict than not strict enough
5. home quarantine for the vaccinated has been suggested for the next phase. There will be an increase in caps as well

[quote disco123]@MRex

1. is being done
2. ICU capacity has been increased. Future lockdowns will be based on local hospital capacity. So even at 70/80, IF there is any danger of being overwhelmed, local measures will be put in place.
3. kids are in school unless they're in a current outbreak. Letting covid spread uncontrolled in schools would be an extremely BAD idea right now and would result in unnecessary deaths
4. I agree only necessary measures should be in place, but id rather err on the side of too strict than not strict enough
5. home quarantine for the vaccinated has been suggested for the next phase. There will be an increase in caps as well[/quote] There is a home quarantine trial starting in South Australia soon. Of course there was the usual cries of ‘you can’t trust people’ and ‘we’re doomed now’ but I say bring it on.

Yes to children back in school. Now that the oldies have had their chance to be vaccinated the lockdown fanatics have started the cries of ‘we can’t let children get sick’ (despite children getting sick all the time and Covid being low risk to them.) Some now want the vaccine targets to include the under 12 despite no vaccine being approved for them yet.

Oh and the older age groups have had months to get vaccinated. If we’d waited for them before moving onto the next age group we’d be in a much worse position than we are now. Still way to many of them holding out for Pfizer while plenty of younger people happily have AZ.

do Aussies have the lft's/ rapid flow tests freely available to everyone?
We trip over them here and in Europe generally and they are given out like sweets and I know they are not perfect but they are useful for day to day living.
I'm off to the theatre later today and will do one before I go for example - result in 30 mins (but you more or less know in 5 mins)
They can also be used to good effect for mass testing in schools too.
Another benefit is that they free up the lab PCR testing capacity (and in doing so the result turnaround time) as only those actually with symptoms or a positive LFT need to have a PCR test. Saves testing thousands of (probably negative) people with PCR's which is basically a waste of time and resources and worse slows results down for the higher risk people.

I believe they were also invented in Aus too so even more good reason to use them!
I think we bought something like a billion (the plastic waste is terrible though)

Meanwhile in Australia. Queensland premier closes to all interstate nsw, act and Vic.
There are so many people effectively homeless now after selling up to relocate. Absolutely heartless.
www.google.com.au/amp/s/australianaviation.com.au/2021/08/queensland-to-shut-down-hotel-quarantine-for-two-weeks/amp/

@sashagabadon

do Aussies have the lft's/ rapid flow tests freely available to everyone? We trip over them here and in Europe generally and they are given out like sweets and I know they are not perfect but they are useful for day to day living. I'm off to the theatre later today and will do one before I go for example - result in 30 mins (but you more or less know in 5 mins) They can also be used to good effect for mass testing in schools too. Another benefit is that they free up the lab PCR testing capacity (and in doing so the result turnaround time) as only those actually with symptoms or a positive LFT need to have a PCR test. Saves testing thousands of (probably negative) people with PCR's which is basically a waste of time and resources and worse slows results down for the higher risk people.

There’s a crazy rule like you can only use them with under the supervision of a health care professional (wish I was joking).