Australia in a mess - NZ with a plan

[StartupRepair]

More than half of Australia is in lockdown now, sparked (imo) by the intransigence of the NSW Premier who ignored all warnings about Delta. Our procurement of and messaging around vaccines has been dangerously incompetent.
It all feels a bit bleak today. At least NZ seems to have a plan.

[quote L1ttleSeahorse]@flyornofly its really interesting hearing from someone whose been through it in th UK and is now in Oz.

Are you planning to come back? Will you be able to?

Our Australian friends are surprised we arent vaccinating kids here/that we'd risk their lives sending them to school...[/quote]
Oh yes. Have a look at any Australian parenting Internet forum at the moment. It’s all ‘lets’s keep locking down til all children are vaccinated’ or ‘I just can’t sleep at night knowing little Isla or Henry might get Covid and be disabled for life’. The crazy is real.

@Planesandflying

Can I ask how the Aussies regard the UK now? I know with our opening up completely almost a month ago, the eyes of the world really were upon us, how is our seemingly ok progress being viewed over there?

Honestly, we're so busy dealing with our own dramas watching what's going on in NSW and wondering if our Vic lockdown is going to be extended - speaking for myself - I don't think about Covid numbers or the situation in the UK with the exception of reading the thread here. If people have family in the UK they're obviously more invested. The only overseas countries I'm looking at ( in horror) is the US with its new surge among the unvaccinated, and Indonesia which is dire.

I’m in Sydney and honestly there isn’t anywhere in Australia I’d rather be right now. If I lived in any of the other states I would be really starting to worry about the zero Covid approach. At least in NSW we are now in the storm and have a chance of coming out of the other side, battered and bruised with lives lost, but unfortunately life is like that sometimes.
I heard an advert for a heart disease charity the other day and thought, what would it be like if we treated heart disease like we treated Covid? Obligatory photos of our 5 a day veg, state mandated daily exercise, cigarettes and alcohol banned, shaming of overweight people, “non essential” food items banned? And yet this would probably save hundreds more lives so why don’t we do this? Because it’s not the governments proportional response to a health issue.

I have no idea how WA will deal with the number of cases they will get in the future. I think NSW is starting to understand that we will have a wave of cases but the vaccines will go some way to protecting us. Most people I know are accepting that we have to be in lockdown until vaccine rates are higher but this lockdown has shown us that we can’t live like this forever. Already the discrepancies betweeen different schools are starting to show and people won’t like that for a long period.
I think having these cases is the best thing for NSW. It had to happen at some point and the zero Covid thing was never going to last forever. Plus it’s encouraged people to get vaccinated.

Agree Ozgirl75, nowhere I would rather be (well maybe within walking distance of the beach, but I have the bush).

We will be vaccinated and on to the next phase, while others are still chasing the zero dream.

What I read on forums is completely different to the feel on the ground.

I agree. People I talk to are calm and mainly vaccinated and just want to get through this, accepting that life isn’t perfect and some people will get sick and die and this is a shame but there isn’t an outcry every time a 30 year old dies of cancer or in a car accident. Unfortunately life has unwelcome things and we can do what we can to mitigate them but we can’t control everything.

@Ozgirl75

I agree. People I talk to are calm and mainly vaccinated and just want to get through this, accepting that life isn’t perfect and some people will get sick and die and this is a shame but there isn’t an outcry every time a 30 year old dies of cancer or in a car accident. Unfortunately life has unwelcome things and we can do what we can to mitigate them but we can’t control everything.

Maybe I need to move to NSW once I can. Here in Adelaide I’m surrounded by lockdown fans and people terrified of Covid.

Thank fuck for Mumsnet to help give me an insight to the rest of the world which by some miracle (if you listen to my family) still seems to be doing okay.

I am in WA and there is nowhere else I would rather be. Everyone I know feels lucky to be here and living a normal life, sans travel of course. Lockdown has worked well for us here, and until we get as many people vaccinated as possible, most people I know are happy with that. Of course we will re-open when vaccination levels are higher, and we will have to let go of zero covid which will no doubt be difficult, but currently buying time will save many lives. I have paid a price for this freedom, I miss my family and friends back in the UK and Ireland, and its possible I won't see some of them again, so of course I see the issues with the hard border! But that is just the price I have to pay,, and having heard how restrictive life has been there, I am grateful for my mask free life here. I really hope the East Coast gets things under control soon, and get back to normal life again.

@bluetongue at least your Premier doesn’t waste time point scoring and slagging off other Premiers! Just gets on with his job. I’m embarrassed for NSW, Victoria and Qld when I hear the Premiers smugly bigging up their responses and then having to lock down days later. Do they not understand humility and hubris? Don’t they understand that most Australians don’t see themselves as New South Walsers or Victorians and don’t want to pit themselves against their fellow Australians? So parochial and embarrassing for them when their cases come and they have to eat humble pie

I'm in QLD and overall happy with how it's been managed here. The lockdowns ha e been short and sharp. There have been sacrifices but many lives and livelihoods saved by enabling normal life to continue through most of this.

Zero cases today which is really great. Our last lockdown was 8 days. People comply because we've been through this before and we trust in the strategy.

Vaccinations were slow but it's all systems go now. Everybody is keenly aware that vaccination is the key to being able to travel internationally again. If they are aware of the UK people are really happy to see things going well there, seems like vaccination is doing the trick, and we're looking forward to opening international borders early next year.

Just heard that we're getting a million extra doses of Pfizer from Poland, to start arriving tonight! Brilliant news. Lovely example of international cooperation

It's interesting isn't it, my friends in South Australia are posting on social media about getting the vaccine so that they can travel again. It doesn't seem to be related to keeping safe from covid (which I understand). However I still have the impression a lot don't realise that they haven't dodged covid completely and it will still be coming their way? Sorry for garbled post, only just woke up.

I'm delighted that the under 40s in SA now have access to pfizer now, all my concerns are borne from the fact I want my home country to do well and I want to be allowed to visit at some point in the not too distant future.

Oh yes. Have a look at any Australian parenting Internet forum at the moment. It’s all ‘lets’s keep locking down til all children are vaccinated’ or ‘I just can’t sleep at night knowing little Isla or Henry might get Covid and be disabled for life’. The crazy is real.

Blue do you mean for all dc even under 12s?

History has shown (I'm thinking of the post-September 11th years and the unending bloody War On Terrorism) that populations can be trained to be terrified and keep being terrified of statistically tiny risks.

It does make me wonder what's going to happen over the next foreseeable.

No doubt most Australians are getting ready to take a more nuanced view of COVID and live with the virus.

But, just as with the post Sep 11 thing, you'll probably have a substantial minority of the population who keep on being frightened of the (ever smaller) risk, allowing it to take over their lives. The inevitable spread of the virus in Ozwhen it comes, as it must domay prompt many some v frightened people to whisk their kids out of school, stop going to shops or restaurants or domestic travel, and avoid contact with other people. It might take a few years for the fear thing to burn out.

Wow at the parenting sites! That gives my friend's response some context.

Wow, that’s funny about the parenting sites. Every parent I speak to is keen to get them back to school now! I’d send mine tomorrow if I could. Barely any cases where we are (northern Sydney) and DH and I are both vaccinated.

Mumsnet was just as bad here say in December. If you read it you’d think U.K. parents were all terrified too. But in reality majority were delighted to send their children back as soon as they could.
You have to keep one eye on the people that inhabit parenting boards to stoke the fear.
It happens here on Mumsnet too and no doubt Australian talk boards are “under attack” from bad faith actors who are trying to make everyone as fearful as possible for reasons unrelated to actual children’s welfare (imo)
Try and ignore is my advice.
U.K. schools have remained open throughout the delta wave and we do not have 100’s of children dropping dead. We did have a bubble system where whole classes got sent home if a positive test is found which is disruptive enough and thankfully getting dropped come the new school year in September.

Very true re mn - there’s been similar posts for a long time

If some in Aus think under 12s won’t get Covid I’m not sure how that’s possible. Actually all ages will but older will be vaccinated.

I’ve always thought of Australians as a hardy stoic sort. Australia is ( to a Brit) a genuinely dangerous country. You have the worlds most venomous spiders and snakes that can kill you instantly. You have a fish that can paralyse instantly by stepping on it and a small jellyfish that can do the same with a slight touch. You have great white sharks! When I found out that salt water crocodiles could also swim in the sea I was terrified and wondered how anyone ever dipped their toe in the sea. One of your prime ministers disappeared going for a stroll on a beach, presumed taken by a crocodile
So little old Covid is nothing compared to all that imo. Australians don’t live in daily fear of being bitten and dying of black widow spiders hiding under their toilets (as I read in a book once, might have been Bill Bryson) as you understand and assess the risks and this will become the same in time.
U.K. has no deadly wildlife at all. We are “zero deadly wildlife” whereas you guys are “living with deadly wildlife” .

I wonder what places like China, Australia and New Zealand will do when the next variant that there isn't a vaccine for comes along. It's already been 18 months since the first variation of covid and the vaccines are based on this variant.

In the long run I think places that only had lockdowns/restrictions to stop health service being overwhelmed probably got the balance right and most likely is the way going forward eg most of Europe.

The thing is, once you are vaccinated, for most people the fear is gone. I am no longer scared of dying of covid after catching at work. If I didn't work in healthcare I would be getting vaccinated and counting down the days till they open up and lets crack on. The occasional lockdown and masking is no big deal- it really isn't.

However I see the healthcare system. I see how broken it is on a good day. I see the state of Florida when vaccination rates are somewhere that we think are adequate. And it ain't good.

I know it will come. I just really really don't want it to and am entirely happy to live with zero covid with border restrictions until we are in a place which is safe enough to open both domestically and internationally. If NSW had gone hard and early and got it down to zero again then we could have had the same situation as not that long ago where we were free to travel throughout Aus and Nz which gave huge freedoms.

I am happy with the way that things have been handled here in the most part. I am glad I haven't had to watch people die of covid at work. I don't know anyone who has had covid. And I am utterly terrified for the Indigenous population and tbh they now are my main priority to keep safe.

Even if only 50% of the country was vaccinated, that means the death rate will be about 49.5% less than other countries have had who had their big waves when there was no vaccine. So overall, less Australians will die. Thats a good thing.

until we are in a place which is safe enough to open both domestically and internationally.

But when do you think that will be?

Covid’s going to be circulating globally forever (as far as we can see)

Even very high rates of vaccination (90%+ of total population) aren’t going to confer herd immunity.

What’s ‘safe enough’?

Yes that expression 'safe enough' you could go on like that forever unfortunately

Daniel Andrews has never bigged up anything in his handling of the pandemic in Victoria.

That's the question which is seemingly dividing Australia right now.

The federal gov has said 80% vaccinations is the point where we can begin to resume international travel yet mark, WA premier said he will continue lockdowns and pursue zero Covid beyond that.

Whereas NSW probably due to the current experience of long lockdown and continuing rising numbers is more in the camp of well, let's vaccinate all who want it and get on with life. Prepare for the inevitable 'exit wave' as you brits are referring to it and make sure we can do as much as we can. Ending lockdowns seems inevitable now, it's not sustainable forever, so surely it's clear that vaccines are our last card.