What would YOU do about Covid?

[KhalliWhalli]

I get that the government can’t win, whatever they do. And everyone seems to have an opinion on what should be done about Covid. I have my own opinions but am wondering what everyone else thinks, about lockdown, mandatory vaccination, etc.

So, what would you do, if you were in charge?

Firstly, I would perform a circuit breaker lockdown for two weeks every four months if cases were above a certain level. This would be pre-planned, and employers would either have the option to furlough staff or let them wfh. Schools would be online but only for three hours a day. Only NHS, supermarkets and deliveries would continue in these two weeks and the only reason to go out would be for a walk. The rules would be clear and fines would be issued. There would be plenty of notice and in those two weeks, borders would be closed.
The rest of the time, it would be masks in public indoor spaces. In restaurants etc I would int induce the green pass.
Border controls would be simple. A test to prove negativity at entry. I wouldn't do the quarantine because people are staying with other people and it gets passed anyway.
People probably won't like my reply, but this is what would make me feel like we were truly tackling it.

No, we aren't an island. We have a land border---with the Republic of Ireland

Yes the RoI...who put in place pandemic border control....

A pandemic is not normal times - and needs not normal times measures. The alternative - the genocidal let the bodies pile up approach has been many many avoidable deaths, disabilities, and huge economic damage.

Closing borders is pointless when we have nearly 10,000 lorry drivers coming into the country each day, from all over Europe.

Nonsense. 10,000 lorry drivers much easier to manage and track... without adding on additional millions of non essential travellers.

@Ohshitiveturnedintomymother

Same with the cries for boosters this autumn with ever decreasing age groups. Give the damn vaccinations to countries that need them first! I think it’s dreadful that we will be further vaccinating people just in case when there are millions around the world who will never get access to one jab.

Important to put your own oxygen mask on first. Particularly if (I emphasise the if) it turns out that one vaccine isn't as effective as others. And if protection wanes after a period of time, then we have a moral obligation to booster jab our own vulnerable (re age, risk increases from 40/45). Else they're not really fully vaccinated.

In any case, as said by low and middle income countries themselves, donated doses are a drop in the ocean - and nowhere close to helping in any meaningful way.

The way to get the rest of the world vaccinated is as Biden and Macron say (and what the low/middle income countries themselves are calling for). Temporary vaccine patent waiver (and support for the infrastructure to actually get them into arms).

I'd have nominated one covid hospital per region, all wards turned to covid care, with all ongoing care cases going there and tried to maintain some semblance of normality for more routine care (have no idea how realistic this is, clearly I don't work in healthcare!)

I'd have had pop up supermarkets for healthcare/care workers in hospital care parks, so they didn't have to battle with empty shelves after a shit shift.

Controversially, I'd possibly have attempted to roll out the the vaccination programme to 45-55 age bracket (once all essential workers were done, obviously) at the start, while we were doing the over 85s. Many people in that age bracket are providing physical and potentially financial care to both both elderly and younger people, without them, much of the in-family care that is SO important falls to bits. Appreciate there would have been totally overwhelm though, so not sure quite how I'd have achieved that 🤔

I think they need to vaccinate children of all ages now before September, and offer boosters jabs before winter, I think this is something that we are just going to have to live with but I really do hope hospital and death rates drop as it is so heartbreaking and unfortunately I don't think covid is going to go away anytime soon, another lockdown would be pointless as cases would just rise again once they open up again.

@Tealightsandd we’ve already ‘put on our own oxygen masks’. This is kind of like taking the one from the person beside us ‘just in case’.

“At this point...there is no scientific evidence to suggest that boosters are definitely needed,” said Dr. Soumya Swaminathan, WHO’s chief scientist. Swaminathan said WHO would make recommendations on booster doses if they were needed, but that any such advice “has to be based on the science and data, not on individual companies declaring that the vaccines should now be administered as a booster dose."

“ While much of the western world has gotten to more than 50 percent of population having had at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine, countries in Africa and much of Asia are way behind.”

www.euronews.com/2021/07/12/who-calls-on-the-west-to-donate-extra-vaccines-to-poor-countries

(Source)

Although this has already been pointed out to you on other threads @Tealightsandd but you just keep trying to find ways to justify greed/selfishness.

Amongst other things- Emphasise the importance of good ventilation, tell people it’s never been more necessary to look after our personal mental and physical health.

@bumbleymummy

www.euronews.com/2021/07/12/who-calls-on-the-west-to-donate-extra-vaccines-to-poor-countries

(Source)

Although this has already been pointed out to you on other threads @Tealightsandd but you just keep trying to find ways to justify greed/selfishness.

I've got things to do now so I'll have to come back later.

If you want to talk selfish and greed, ask why no patent waiver.

I'll post links later. The actual countries you profess concern for - in getting vaccines - have themselves said donations aren't enough. Not anywhere close. They need patent waiver - if the world is to be vaccinated quickly.

I'm slightly confused though. If you're so against vaccines...why wish it on other countries?

I’m not against vaccines. Anti-vaxx is just thrown around as a meaningless insult on MN these days.

Do you have a link to where they’ve said ‘donations aren’t enough’. Millions of doses would be better than nothing and I doubt the WHO would be asking for them if they didn’t think it would make any difference.

Ventilation Ventilation Ventilation

Why do a lot of people, not all, but most still not understand how important and effective it is.

@bumbleymummy

I’m not against vaccines. Anti-vaxx is just thrown around as a meaningless insult on MN these days.

Do you have a link to where they’ve said ‘donations aren’t enough’. Millions of doses would be better than nothing and I doubt the WHO would be asking for them if they didn’t think it would make any difference.

The UK is already donating millions of doses

reliefweb.int/report/world/uk-begins-donating-millions-covid-19-vaccines-overseas-0

This isn't mutually exclusive with offering children and non-vulnerable adults vaccination here too

Yes, I know they are. See the above links to the WHO comments on giving healthy adults potentially unnecessary booster doses when hcps and vulnerable older people in developing countries haven’t had a first dose yet.

I'd do what we're doing now, except I'd probably offer vaccination to 12 + (which may happen anyway). Keep the option of making masks mandatory again over winter.

@bumbleymummy

Yes, I know they are. See the above links to the WHO comments on giving healthy adults potentially unnecessary booster doses when hcps and vulnerable older people in developing countries haven’t had a first dose yet.

This is rather short sighted though.

Children and others forgoing their vaccines for donation (in the UK), when we are already donating millions of doses, is not going to have a meaningful impact on developing countries besides pleasing those who are opposed to mass vaccination.

The UK would have a much greater impact by actually providing resources and funding to Covax and supporting technology transfer agreements for domestic manufacture and scaling up vaccine production. As has been stated a couple of times, Malawi had destroy thousands of donated doses because of some of these issues.

The UK has also been opposed to patent waivers and reduced foreign aid. These are the issues that need to be focussed on here, not trying to discourage vaccination when it's not the bottleneck. I know less about other countries, but it is certainly the case in the UK.

I would put a stop to businesses and services using it as an excuse for providing bad customer care. And I would create preferential treatment for vaccinated people, and start to vaccinate children as soon as possible.

And I would create preferential treatment for vaccinated people

Eek.

Presumably you'd have eventuating circumstances for those you can't have it for genuine reasons? How far would that extend to - mental health and OCD? Women TTC or pregnant? Religious people/vegans?

Would be absolutely impossible to reach an agreement on what genuine is, and totally unfair to place that decision on clinicians who have no interest in playing god.

It would also help the groups who can't have the vaccine.

@ollyollyoxenfree it’s not short sighted of me, it’s the WHO who have spoken out about it. I’m pretty sure they’re not ‘opposed to mass vaccination’.

Isn't it quite obvious? Read the society, how people respond. Stronger, shorter lockdown, and proper mitigation at school.
It's a shame, UK had so much potential to lead the world with quick roll out of vaccination if it was paired up with proper safety measures at school.

Like PPs, I would have invested more in mitigations for schools. Ventilation, hygiene, nutrition, smaller groups would manage the spread of covid but also many other infections that put strain on the health service. I suspect compliance would be good. Who would protest against measures that improve childrens' overall health and wellbeing?

If you want to talk selfish and greed, ask why no patent waiver

You mention this on most of your posts. It will never happen.
The manufacturers of Pfizer and Moderna have no intention of giving it up and certainly not when they've just increased the cost of their vaccines.

@XenoBitch

Part of me wants to say... the human race sucks, and we are wrecking the planet. Let it rip, and let it kill us all tbh.

But that is not a popular opinion to have. I don't know. Even our governments don't have answers that have really worked. All I can think of is things that would help people with whatever measures were brought in. Single people were forced to be alone. So, there should have been some help with that instead of "suck it up". More acknowledgement that the lockdown measures were causing harm. Covid was not the only thing killing people.

Just because we suck as the human race, we don't all need to give up , we still can do best as individual to slow the process. If everyone took the same stance, the destruction comes quicker, don't you think? Same as vaccination. Individual person can take their own stance, but if we all decided not to take the vaccine because we are afraid of individual risk, getting out from this pandemic take way longer. You need to admit, people who wants to end this pandemic, so as a choice who are taking vaccine are driving force out of this. Like it or not, it's the truth.

Do people have any idea how long it would take to design, manufacture and install ventilation systems for every building?! It would require years of consultations, tenders, finding enough workmen, sourcing the proper materials (all building materials are currently in short supply). This sort of thing can’t be rushed (one word - Grenfell) .

I am involved with one new public building and its ventilation system is proving hugely problematic. Imagine trying to install systems in older buildings including thousands of schools.

Frankly the most efficient thing is to keep the windows open.

And then how do you deal with kids going home to stuffy, over-heated houses with multiple family members? There should be a “fresh air” public information campaign. In fact I would also mandate fresh air in care homes. The fetid air heated to 90 degrees in these is a perfect covid breeding ground.

@DottyHarmer wouldn't cost too much to fix the school windows so they open