What would YOU do about Covid?

[KhalliWhalli]

I get that the government can’t win, whatever they do. And everyone seems to have an opinion on what should be done about Covid. I have my own opinions but am wondering what everyone else thinks, about lockdown, mandatory vaccination, etc.

So, what would you do, if you were in charge?

Part of me wants to say... the human race sucks, and we are wrecking the planet. Let it rip, and let it kill us all tbh.

Perhaps the robots will get rid of us and save the planet?

If we really were looking to kill off humans, there's kinder ways of doing it than Covid.

More acknowledgement that the lockdown measures were causing harm.

Far better would've been never letting it become a global pandemic. We all saw what was happening in Wuhan. Temporary border closures worldwide was all that was needed.

We are an island. It could have been contained.

No, we aren't an island. We have a land border---with the Republic of Ireland. What would you have done about that, seriously? Also, the channel tunnel and massive amounts of lorry freight make the situation far harder than it would be on an actual island. Container ships have few people on them for their size and are set up for people to isolate on them. You can't easily do that with lorry drivers. The Australians live on a true island, have gone absolutely wild with hammering home the quarantine rules, and even they couldn't keep Delta out.

I think "trying" to have tighter controls on international travel would have helped to SLOW DOWN the introduction of the virus and then of Delta, but keeping the virus out forever would be impossible.

There are some very naive and idealistic demands and expectations on this thread. Pandemics do not present societies or governments with easy choices. Any policy adopted will have significant downsides, and there is no perfect solution.

One thing the government should have done is get people wearing masks earlier and got the ventilation going EVERYWHERE.

I still can't believe how long it took the UK government to get serious about promoting ventilation.

The societies which remember SARS started ventilating, cracking the windows open and encouraging the shift of activities outdoors very early.

The UK government should have been taking notes, not obsessing with hand washing.

I know that at the start of this pandemic it was not clear how this thing spread, but the UK government continued to de-emphasize ventilation and nag people and organizations about scrubbing surfaces again and again, long after it become evident that this virus is spread mostly through the air.

Again, this would not be a magic solution, but it would have at least SLOWED the spread of the virus, greatly reduced viral doses and reduced the number of people getting severely ill.

Accept primary transmission route is airborne and mitigate accordingly. CO2 monitors, guidance on adequate ventilation for all crowded indoor spaces especially schools, universities, nightclubs, pubs, restaurants.

Tackle misinformation and promote vaccination including young adults and 12-18 year olds.

Consistent public health messaging not all the flip flopping and flannel the government gives out. Immediate dismissal for any government minister or spad who breaks the rules to help restore public confidence in governance.

I find it hard to understand why it took so long for WHO to admit the virus was airborne. This impacted on how countries were dealing with it in the early stages.

IMO UK government is still not serious about the airborne risk, they are doing very little on ventilation in schools for example.

But scientists aren't sure it is airborne apparently:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/07/top-scientists-remain-puzzled-covid-spreads/

@poshme Not sure the Telegraph is a reliable source tbh goven they are covid-sceptic almost to the point of full blown denial.

For this type of information, read the medical/scientific press/journals.

Can't think of any reason why the hard right would want to cover up the ariborne issue to avoid pressure to make any investment in public buildings, theya re usually so keen to invest to protect the ordinary public

Upgrade PPE for hospital staff and healthcare staff who are in contact with the public. Re establish "fever hospitals" (or at least self-contained wings) rather than keep consolidating hospitals into bigger and bigger units with only one foyer/canteen etc.

Try and get the population exercising, out into the fresh air more and eating better food.

[quote poshme]But scientists aren't sure it is airborne apparently:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/07/top-scientists-remain-puzzled-covid-spreads/[/quote]
There are vast amounts of evidence now to prove that Covid is airborne. It's not even up for debate, it just is.

Those "top scientists " shouldn't be "top scientists" then

The airborne issue confused me until I read about the history. It always seemed obvious that there would be some transmission from breathing, but I couldn't really understand that the obsession with droplet size was driving the restricted thought about transmission. Once I understood they hadn't had any physics involvement, it all fell into place. Some of the history is here, there's a great US article though, I'll try to find out:
www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n913

I'd have picked up the pre 2020 pandemic plan and implemented that. We're currently bankrupting the country with rolling lockdowns and restrictions that will damage millions of life chances and throw people into more precarious and vulnerable situations, while doing absolutely nothing to change the reasons we are so vulnerable to disease.

If the billions we've chucked at Covid restrictions had been used to create better social and living conditions and a healthier population we'd be seeing the benefit for generations to come.

This is the article, I'm at my NY Times limit but hopefully you can read it: www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/opinion/coronavirus-airborne-transmission.html.

This is also a good article about transmission: www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.590041/full.

Start treating it as a global issue - the UK can't 'control' it (nor can US, China, AUS or anyone else for that matter) until every country 'controls' it.
So start vaccination programs on a global basis and understand that until that happens the rich folk in the first world need to realise they will be inconvenienced.

I don't think there's any serious debate that Covid isn't airborne. It's like smoke, which is why masks are useless. They might work with modelling using water droplets but I suspect forcing your breath out the sides of your mask and around a wider area is one of the most stupid things we've been told will work. They're there to remind us we're in a pandemic and to make us feel safer. There might be models and memes but there's not a single randomised trial that shows they work.

The first Delta case was identified in December 2020 - is that when people wanted India to go on a red list?

Most the ideas here are too expensive & will be bad value for money by the time they could be implemented. Better question: what would you do in the next two months that will continue to be cost effective for the next six months?

Am pretty sure, There's not a single randomised trial that shows that air cleansing (germicidal lights or HEPA filters etc.) works to reduce respiratory infections.

@NameChangeNameShange

Start treating it as a global issue - the UK can't 'control' it (nor can US, China, AUS or anyone else for that matter) until every country 'controls' it. So start vaccination programs on a global basis and understand that until that happens the rich folk in the first world need to realise they will be inconvenienced.

This! How are people in shanty towns/homeless/slums etc supposed to lock down? That is sentencing them to starvation as they will neither have the money for two weeks of to of and supplies nor the means to keep them. Also sanitation is hardly a priority in these locations, no loos in houses or running water again makes lock down a trifle problematic…but hey ho, you didn’t have to travel to work and got to potter in the garden/put the washing on/be more productive so lockdowns work, right?

Same with the cries for boosters this autumn with ever decreasing age groups. Give the damn vaccinations to countries that need them first! I think it’s dreadful that we will be further vaccinating people just in case when there are millions around the world who will never get access to one jab.

If I was in charge the NHS would have been properly funded for the last ten years.

In my opinion, Lockdowns do not work, because there are too many groups of people who cannot lockdown. From doctors and nurses in hospitals, emergecy workers (police and fire), shop workers, bakeries, etc other medical emergencies re heart attacks, babies being born, etc

Secondly, the virus is still there when lockdown ends.
So, possibly banning the large crowd events such as the football match, and the cheltenham thing may have slowed the spread, but not prevented the spread of infection.

There have been several scientific articles claiming that the virus is airborne , which if so, then being outside, especially in the summer would help mitigate against infection.

Closing borders is pointless when we have nearly 10,000 lorry drivers coming into the country each day, from all over Europe.

If I were a Gov minister, I would try to have ensured that during the summer of 2020, that money was put towards increasing hospital capacity, and could cope with the inevitable winter surge (there is always a winter surge, and if not covid, then it would be flu).

But this also requires staff; so I would investigate how we could bring back recently retired doctors and possibly early graduation of final years nurses and doctors. This should be part of a plan going forward. ie maybe when doctors retire, (not all, but some) could be on a sort of reserve list for the following year. This requires an investigation to see if this is possible. When the (largely unused) Nightingale hospitals were built, it was mentioned of using nurses and doctors in their final years of university, so some kind of investigation into this should be made going forward, and how they would be implemented, etc

I think clsoing schools was the worse thing to do, because of the devasating effect on children's education, and on the families who were supposed to be working from home, and trying to homeschool their children at the same time.

I would also investigate early treatment methods. It seems to me that many poeple died when it first started because (anecdotally), people were told to stay at home until they went blue in the face. It later transpired that early treatment with oxygen was beneficial.

Start sending vaccines and infrastructure to deliver them to poorer countries now - this is a global issue.

Remove the strict immigration barriers from health care workers so that working in the NHS becomes attractive for foreign workers again and those who left post Brexit will return. Training new staff is not a quick fix.

Pay everyone their full salary or equal amount for lost earnings when they are told to isolate after a positive test. Lots are not testing because they can't afford to not work for 10+ days if they are on zero hours contract, only get SSP or are self employed.

Speak more about the unpopular truth that covid has shown being obese is massively linked to ill health. The fat positive movement among younger people and the blind denial about a link between health and weight needs to be challenged.

Improve government messaging in general to avoid mixed messages. Ministers can't be talking about ripping off their masks like covid is all over when infection rates are still really high and masks work both in terms of reducing transmission and also by acting as a reminder to be cautious in general.

@tightsonatrain

People can't "get on with their lives" if coronavirus is not adequately supressed.

On the contrary, people can't "get on with their lives" if Covid continues to be suppressed.

All adults have had the chance to be double vaccinated. The risks to children are so slight that the very safe vaccine is a comparable risk. We did open up on 19 July and infection rates fell! It is absolutely time to get on with our lives.... And I'm someone who has broadly supported the suppression measures put in place so far.