People always on to the next thing

[DottyHarmer]

Now I see it’s antibodies. Lots of posters claiming that they, their dp, their neighbour and their neighbour’s dustman’s aunt have no antibodies from their vaccine. Some people fail to develop antibodies, but all of them appear to be on Mumsnet….

There’s always a panic du jour, from worrying about catching covid from an Amazon parcel, to long covid 3hours after being exposed. 18 months of panics which drop off active convos as soon as something else turns up which affects a surprising number of people on here.

It’s thoroughly exhausting.

I'm in 🇮🇲 Isle of Man, we hugely backed our government closing borders at start, we gave up so many things, we had elimination with huge border restrictions. So angry now we did it all. our lives on hold but now it's just like wey hey economy trumps us residents & we have highest cases ever. Feels like we bn played. So both angry & disappointed. Our parliament is now off on its summer jolies. September elections & almost like they've just washed hands of it & couldn't care less. Our chief minister (Boris uk version ) our health minister both received honours on queens list. Yet now they disappeared, we have worst numbers now, reality we go on red list. Where are our leaders... off on their hols... am so pissed off.

1000s of lorries is easier to track and manage than adding additional millions of non essential travellers on top.

Zero Covid absolutely was possible (worldwide) - but even if that was too much hard woek for too many, what certainly was and is possible (and what the WHO calls for) is suppress and contain.

There's a world of difference between zero, versus completely unmitigated spread.

@Tealightsandd In NSW, yes, tracking lorries has been a critical task as the drivers have turned out to be one of the key spreaders of the virus around the state. Drivers are tested frequently and have passes they need to show at freeway checkpoints (for example, out of Sydney that is currently in lockdown - but supplies need to get out to regional areas.) This approach is currently working, both within NSW and between states.

Really rather offensive disabilist contempt for people suffering Long Covid disability - given the data.

The data I've seen supporting huge numbers of LC people were based on the most ridiculous studies which failed to do basic things like establish control groups or make attempts to rule of the nocebo effect.

Nobody here doubts that people who get severely ill from COVID can wind up with lingering post-viral syndrome--we all know this happens with other unpleasant viruses like glandular fever and flu, so it would be surprising if we did not see such issues in many people who had bad bouts of COVID.

I feel like all that noise and criticism re ‘U.K. experiment’ has faded away - letters, WHO, on here

I know. The posters on here reporting megadeath have gone awfully quiet about it. (Not quiet altogether--they've moved on to Long Covid. I'm also waiting for "The virus has mutated into variants that aren't being detected by the tests" to start. Although maybe I shouldn't give them ideas).

what certainly was and is possible (and what the WHO calls for) is suppress and contain.

Are you sure about this? For a virus that has a large amount of a symptomatic spread. You need full lockdown and very low cases in West at least.

WHO also said don’t close borders did you agree with that?

@Sunshinegirl82

There hasn't been "completely unmitigated spread" though, has there?

Zero covid worldwide? "Too much work"? Are you out of your tree?!

If you genuinely believe that zero covid was logistically possible worldwide (even in countries where the necessary lockdowns would have resulted in people, you know, starving to death) then I'm not sure there's much more to be said to be honest. I can't really take someone who genuinely believes that seriously.

It’s crazy to see this stuff over and over

Zero Covid absolutely was possible (worldwide) - but even if that was too much hard woek for too many, what certainly was and is possible (and what the WHO calls for) is suppress and contain'
Zero Covid was possible while the virus was only in Wuhan. Unfortunately the Chinese ruling party CCP hid initial cases, then minimised the threat without locking down early enough and then lied that there was no human to human transmission, as well as hiding the real case and death numbers. The WHO unfortunately went along with all of it, which delayed the global response. By the time it was clear at the end of February 2020 that the virus was spreading through the commumity in Italy, it was also in Spain, UK, France and Austria; cases then regularly popped up daily in new countries worldwide. If your consideration is that this virus could and should have been stopped in China December 2019, then yes, I agree. If you have some madcap idea that it could have been suppressed beyond February 2020 then you have no idea how embedded it already was, or no idea how the virus works, or no idea how the world works.

Is anyone else starting to notice the similarities with Communism defenders? "Yes, but what you need to understand is that TRUE COMMUNISM has never actually been tried!"

@MRex

Zero Covid absolutely was possible (worldwide) - but even if that was too much hard woek for too many, what certainly was and is possible (and what the WHO calls for) is suppress and contain' Zero Covid was possible while the virus was only in Wuhan. Unfortunately the Chinese ruling party CCP hid initial cases, then minimised the threat without locking down early enough and then lied that there was no human to human transmission, as well as hiding the real case and death numbers. The WHO unfortunately went along with all of it, which delayed the global response. By the time it was clear at the end of February 2020 that the virus was spreading through the commumity in Italy, it was also in Spain, UK, France and Austria; cases then regularly popped up daily in new countries worldwide. If your consideration is that this virus could and should have been stopped in China December 2019, then yes, I agree. If you have some madcap idea that it could have been suppressed beyond February 2020 then you have no idea how embedded it already was, or no idea how the virus works, or no idea how the world works.

Absolutely.

The horse had already bolted long before a question of shutting down the borders and establishing Zero Covid even arose.

It's difficult to trace the earliest cases back based on samples, but there have been retrospective post-humous community cases identified, without travel or close contact with travel where the usual timeline of the virus indicates that it was aquired around January. Evidence doesn't exist for individuals who had a strange virus and recovered around that time, but anecdotally around December there was widespread illness with a very similar presentation before the CCP had admitted existence of this strain.

With rigourous travel restrictions, quarentines and regular lockdowns, Australia is still fighting a losing battle and will struggle to keep up as the rest of the world phases more normality back over the coming year.

Yes, some posters fondly imagine that lockdown consists of people wfh, pottering around their garden and doing a bit of Joe Wicks.

To these people I ask and how do you nail people in who live in favellas? Or in shanty towns? I doubt whether Ocado does a home delivery there.

@DottyHarmer

Yes, some posters fondly imagine that lockdown consists of people wfh, pottering around their garden and doing a bit of Joe Wicks.

To these people I ask and how do you nail people in who live in favellas? Or in shanty towns? I doubt whether Ocado does a home delivery there.

I think all of that "loving having the DC at home, we're not going to do the worksheets, we're doing half an hour of Joe Wickes then baking and then we're off on a nature ramble" tripe was not only peak Covid on here, but peak Mumsnet and peak Tone Deaf all rolled into one.

Frankly had the dcs been little lockdown would have been the above. Hopefully I would have been more sensitive to others though and not smugly posting about lovely family time.

As it is I have older dcs and the pandemic was a big pile of crap for them. I am almost moved to violence when some posters (the usual suspects) declare that an online life is not only fine but should be a permanent way forward.

@DottyHarmer - er, having a little one in lockdown who can't get normal nursery settling because you can't go in, no parent events like Christmas and sports day, limited staff and parent interaction... and I don't believe anyone can have a useful conference call when a determined 2 to 5 year old wants their attention. as well as friends whose children had no settling and disruptive start-stop issues in their reception year... Then there are friends whose children had no settling and disruptive start-stop issues in their reception year. No, it really wasn't easy for most people with little ones either. Children change as they grow; having just one child, the things we've missed doing with him at this young age we will simply never have; he won't know the difference but I feel that I've missed out on seeing him do those things.

@DottyHarmer

Frankly had the dcs been little lockdown would have been the above. Hopefully I would have been more sensitive to others though and not smugly posting about lovely family time.

As it is I have older dcs and the pandemic was a big pile of crap for them. I am almost moved to violence when some posters (the usual suspects) declare that an online life is not only fine but should be a permanent way forward.

Me too.

So many posters too happy to ascribe digital life to children.

@DottyHarmer

Yes, some posters fondly imagine that lockdown consists of people wfh, pottering around their garden and doing a bit of Joe Wicks.

To these people I ask and how do you nail people in who live in favellas? Or in shanty towns? I doubt whether Ocado does a home delivery there.

YES. THIS. " I'm ok sat at home whilst delivery men, nurses, farmers, supermarket staff, teachers, factory workers (etc etc etc) have to go out and deal with the virus to help facilitate me sat here pleased I'm saving my commute money."

The discussions about more productive wfh always flabbergasted me. Utter bullshit.

The people banging on about zero covid don’t seem to accept that that ship has well and truly sailed. There is no way to put the genie back in the box. Even for covid free areas, the cases in Australia show that one covid case can spiral quickly and that even harsh lockdown can’t really stop it - just reduce it. The only way out seems to be vaccines and accepting a certain amount of cases. The cost of lockdown and mitigating measures needs to be assessed against the cost of not implementing (hospitals being overwhelmed etc). The vaccine has been a game changer in this regard.

Yeah all the “my teenagers are quite happy to live in isolation and don’t mind the fact that they can’t get a proper education, socialisation, travel opportunities etc”. I always think poor kids to have been brainwashed by their parents to accept such a miserable existence. You could argue that it was necessary for the greater good but the level of denial in some pro-lockdown parents was incredible.

Neither herd immunity nor zero covid was ever going to be the right strategy (I actually would hate to be locked up in NZ or Aus right now with the low vaccine uptake wondering what the next step will be). Black and white extremes were never the answer and a moving feast of nuances and difficult calls was always going to have to be the way forward.

@pommedeterre I agree with that. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I don’t think that the U.K. governments have done everything right but the “U.K. is a laughing stock” posters are not credible either.

You could argue that it was necessary for the greater good but the level of denial in some pro-lockdown parents was incredible.

I totally agree. I feel so sorry for those children.

@Kokeshi123

Is anyone else starting to notice the similarities with Communism defenders? "Yes, but what you need to understand is that TRUE COMMUNISM has never actually been tried!"

What is this absolute fairyland nonsense?

@Toesies. I suspect that what Kokeshi is meaning is the “oh but we’ve not had true lockdown, if only we’d done lockdown right” posters. Like everything would have been ok but we did lockdown wrong so let’s go harder and longer and generally tougher.

Nail is in our homes immediately!!

Us

The data I've seen supporting huge numbers of LC people were based on the most ridiculous studies which failed to do basic things like establish control groups or make attempts to rule of the nocebo effect

I don't know if these are the same ones, but the PHE data someone linked had every statistic based on an estimated number of self reports, which surely speaks volumes

Like yourself I don't doubt long covid exists, just as post viral symptoms have always existed, but I'm not about to get excited over the silly numbers being thrown around until there's a more reliable idea of what's going on