What do you do if a family member is an anti-vaxxer?

[BrutusMcDogface]

I’m so angry with my sibling for putting my parents at risk. So very, very angry.

WWYD? Avoid him? Avoid them?!

Can’t believe he’s being so selfish!

Nothing ! Everyone’s got their own opinions and the right to choose what’s right for them. Sooner You learn that you don’t get to decide things for other people the easier life is. I’m not anti vax but I am sick hearing so much judgement around this vaccine !

I don't understand why you think they're putting your parents at risk? People who have had the vaccine still get and spread covid.

Me and my husband aren't having the vaccine. I am not anti-vax. My children are all vaccinated and I will vaccinate my next child.

I know 2 people directly who have had bad covid. I know 5 people directly who have been effected by the vaccine. This is my reason for not having the vaccine

Gosh, we need Leafy Greens on this thread. Only she has the patience to dig up the data.

There’s a significant difference between the risk of transmission to others of a non vaccinated and someone fully vaccinated. In addition to the risk to one’s own health.

I am in a similar situation with a cousin who refuses the vaccine (a general anti vaxxer, omeopathy-lover, not necessarily selfish but with a soft spot for anything “different”, she has no basis of science in her education but sucks up all sorts of rubbish over the internet, and has a tendency to obsess over things to be at the centre of attention)
Now the family is expected to meet for a big garden reunion, and this would be hosted by an uncle who lost a of Covid a close friend and relative, and has done years of chemio so is not terribly confident of his immune system. He doesn’t want her. But if she doesn’t get the invite her mum (vaccinated) will kick a colossal fuss, and this will be a problem, for both the uncle’s generation and for us (their children) and our children, who don’t have too many opportunities to meet every year. But at the same time we don’t want to get together if it means there’s an unnecessary risk…

The risk of transmission from an infected vaccinated person is the same as the risk of transmission from an infected unvaccinated person. Vaccinated people are less likely to contract the virus in the first place although iirc protection ranges from around 60-85% so there is still a decent risk there.

I wouldn’t do anything. And I wouldn’t be too angry about the parents’ because I assume they are also aware he is unvaccinated and are choosing to keep seeing him. If they aren’t angry I don’t see the need to be on their behalf provided they have the capacity to make these decisions about seeing him.

You are totally way OTT here.. respect his decisions. He is NOT putting your parents at risk.

I know more people with it passing it on that are vaccinated than I do unvaccinated.

It's not a given.

I know more people who have died from Delta or have long covid than people with side effects from the vaccine. Since we are now relying on anecdotes.

@bumbleymummy

The risk of transmission from an infected vaccinated person is the same as the risk of transmission from an infected unvaccinated person. Vaccinated people are less likely to contract the virus in the first place although iirc protection ranges from around 60-85% so there is still a decent risk there.

This isn't true

One study from the CDC failed to find a significant difference in transmission (the one that is being widely touted right now), however there was a reduction.

Several other studies have demonstrated reduced transmission so I'm not sure why you're picking up the one that shows the opposite.

I genuinely don't understand this persistent view that vaccines are either 100% effective or totally useless, oft used as an argument against vaccination.

@Anonawoman

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/delta-variant-chickenpox-cdc-leak-b1893498.html%3famp

The Delta variant of the coronavirus spreads as quickly as chickenpox, even among those who are vaccinated, and appears to cause more severe illness, according to a leaked document of the US’s Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

Each person infected with the Delta variant can, on average, end up spreading the virus to eight or nine others, making it as transmissible as chickenpox, according to the document.

Still unpublished research cited by the document also pointed out that people who are fully vaccinated against Covid-19 might spread the Delta variant at a rate similar to their unvaccinated counterparts.

Important to add the caveat missed here - you cannot pass COVID on if you do not catch it. Vaccination prevents infection in the majority of cases.

Nothing. It’s a free choice. Just because the vaccines are not as effective as they should be doesn’t mean that others should have their choices removed from them, or be punished for the choices they have made.

So you want to claim that the recent cdc study showed a reduction in transmission of delta between infected vaccinated and unvaccinated people even though it wasn’t statistically significant?

Where are the other studies that did show a significant difference in transmission of the delta strain in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. I’d like to read them if you can post the links. TIA :)

I won’t socialize with anyone who is unvaccinated. They do have the choice to skip the jab, but should be staying home as much as possible to avoid endangering other people.

@riveted1

I genuinely don't understand this persistent view that vaccines are either 100% effective or totally useless, oft used as an argument against vaccination.

My last post to @riveted1.

Actually I see them being used as an argument against vaccine passports more than vaccines, especially in recent weeks.

So you want to claim that the recent cdc study showed a reduction in transmission of delta between infected vaccinated and unvaccinated people even though it wasn’t statistically significant?

I'm not claiming anything @bumbleymummy

I'm repeating what the report actually found. There was a reduction in transmission in those vaccinated, however it did not reach the threshold of statistical significance used by the authors. As noted, the study is underpowered with wide confidence intervals and so not conclusive.

You have taken this report to state "there is no difference in transmission", when that's not the view of anyone scientifically literate who has read it, or indeed the actual authors. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence (especially in an underpowered study).

I'm double jabbed and I'm happy to hug the unvaxxed as they are the ones who will be sicker than me if they catch it (their choice). I'm thinking my vax will mean it will be nothing more than a few cold symptoms if I get it - going by my vaxxed mates who are double jabbed and shrugged it off after a few days.

@BillieSpain

But if THEY are double jabbed, they are protected, he is the one who chooses not to be. Which is completely up to him.

And it IS a trial, emergency vaccine.

It is absolutely none of your business what an individual does.

Well, they're as protected as they can be... but the subling is still bringing additional risk into the house by being unvaccinated, which presumably is why OP is upset. I doubt they are worried about sibling becoming ill.

@Wolframhart

I won’t socialize with anyone who is unvaccinated. They do have the choice to skip the jab, but should be staying home as much as possible to avoid endangering other people.

Don’t be ridiculous.

@riveted1

So you want to claim that the recent cdc study showed a reduction in transmission of delta between infected vaccinated and unvaccinated people even though it wasn’t statistically significant?

I'm not claiming anything @bumbleymummy

I'm repeating what the report actually found. There was a reduction in transmission in those vaccinated, however it did not reach the threshold of statistical significance used by the authors. As noted, the study is underpowered with wide confidence intervals and so not conclusive.

You have taken this report to state "there is no difference in transmission", when that's not the view of anyone scientifically literate who has read it, or indeed the actual authors. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence (especially in an underpowered study).

Would love to see the links to those other studies if you have them :)

People also need to understand that deciding not to have one particular vaccine doesn't make them anti vaxxer unless they refuse all vaccines!

Its his body, his choice and he is taking the risk of having worse symptoms or long term issues if he gets covis.

Both vaccinated and unvaccinated can pass covid on, just becuae you had the vaccine doesn't mean you'll never get it or pass it on to another person. It simply refuses the severity of symptoms you'll experience.

Bit like those people who carry on with a cold or flu and don't take paracetamol and rather suffer through it...only harming themselves and suffering more.

No response to any of this @bumbleymummy then?

So you want to claim that the recent cdc study showed a reduction in transmission of delta between infected vaccinated and unvaccinated people even though it wasn’t statistically significant?

I'm not claiming anything @bumbleymummy

I'm repeating what the report actually found. There was a reduction in transmission in those vaccinated, however it did not reach the threshold of statistical significance used by the authors. As noted, the study is underpowered with wide confidence intervals and so not conclusive.

You have taken this report to state "there is no difference in transmission", when that's not the view of anyone scientifically literate who has read it, or indeed the actual authors. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence (especially in an underpowered study).

We need further studies, specifically on delta, before making conclusive certain statements like you have attempted to do

They do have the choice to skip the jab, but should be staying home as much as possible to avoid endangering other people.

Is covid the only vaccine you think this way about?