What do you think will happen over winter?

[brideyb]

Restriction wise. I'm feeling very gloomy / anxious about it! My sister is getting married and I desperately hope it can go ahead.

Zoom is grim.

I use it (and Teams) every day for work and I hate it. I used to 'socialise' occassionally via Zoom but gave it up a year ago. It just reminds me of what I'm missing and makes me feel even worse. If I do want to talk to someone, a good old-fashioned phone call is better.

Zoom is such an unnatural way to 'interact'. In real human interaction, you're not sat staring at your own mug while speaking. It's just about OK for one to one chats, but in larger groups, there's no opportunity to chat to one individual at a time and you have to sit looking at yourself while others are talking.

It's awful, and I look forward to the day I can delete my Zoom and Teams apps.

It's awful, and I look forward to the day I can delete my Zoom and Teams apps.

Totally agree. We’re human beings, not god damn holograms.

I feel very sorry for anyone who thinks these are in any way equivalent to actual human interaction.

I fucking hate zoom. I hope I never have to use it ever ever again. I use Teams at work and even that is soul destroying now.

How anyone can suggest our young people just socialise over a bloody computer screen, just fucking cruel.

@SpnBaby1967

I fucking hate zoom. I hope I never have to use it ever ever again. I use Teams at work and even that is soul destroying now.

How anyone can suggest our young people just socialise over a bloody computer screen, just fucking cruel.

I think we're going to see - and are already seeing now - a form of 'disaster capitalism' whereby businesses and other institutions try to push digital 'solutions' on us. Oh you know, we've discovered they've worked so well, so why go back to the inefficient old ways? Passing it off as customer demand, but never mentioning that it has the potential to save them a shit ton of cash.

I see it in my own line of work, which is related to 3rd level education. Lots of talk of keeping 'online delivery' even though students, for the most part, don't like it. Sure, they're 'digital natives' and are happy to use online platforms for many things, but they still want to interact wtih actual human beings f2f, and not in wretched 'breakout rooms'. It's all about 'efficiencies' for those at the top.

I remember goi g to see Wall-e at the cinema and being thoroughly depressed. And now it’s coming true! We’ll all be big fat blobs glued to screens (if we aren’t already). But so long as we’re safe , great! (and of course as long as some schmucks will work in food production and delivery….)

I love team and zoom for work, saves so much time on travelling and there’s less chit chat and coffee breaks so things can be done faster so I hope many work things stay on line. Will save spreading all the usual winter bugs too or driving in bad weather.

I agree that a phone call works better as a one to one form of communication.
Maybe like they used to say radio feels intimate compared to TV.

Remote meetings have their place in business.

Tbf @SpnBaby1967 teens do 50%+ of their socialisation remotely by choice.

I agree that in some cases zoom/teams is a boon. Obviously saves time and money regarding international business. However, as a default position it’s depressing.

Ds’s friend is a graduate trainee in accountancy practice. Accountancy training has always been a big yawn, but the flip side is you’re with a group of other trainees, having bants, and visiting random clients. Now, however, the training is sitting in your bedroom 8 hours a day with file sharing online - no need to visit a client or the office or meet your peers. Ds’s friend is ploughing along but at one point he said he wanted to jack it in as the thought of a life forever upstairs at his mum and dads sitting in a chair all day staring at a screen was torture.

Ds’s friend is ploughing along but at one point he said he wanted to jack it in as the thought of a life forever upstairs at his mum and dads sitting in a chair all day staring at a screen was torture.

What an utterly depressing existence for anyone, let alone a youngster starting off in their profession.

It’s grim beyond belief.

However I think the tide will turn on this pretty fast. Once face to face meetings start becoming the norm again, there’s no justification for appalling substitutes for proper induction and training.

I think remote meetings can be OK when there is a very clear objective and when those involved have already built up a rapport in real life. However, they are no replacement for f2f interaction in general. The 'chit chat' which some deride is also a way in which people get to see their colleagues as human beings instead of faces or worse, initials, on a screen.

And yes agree with @DottyHarmer above regarding how awful it must be to be young and starting out on working life via a screen. Depressing.

@DottyHarmer

I agree that in some cases zoom/teams is a boon. Obviously saves time and money regarding international business. However, as a default position it’s depressing.

Ds’s friend is a graduate trainee in accountancy practice. Accountancy training has always been a big yawn, but the flip side is you’re with a group of other trainees, having bants, and visiting random clients. Now, however, the training is sitting in your bedroom 8 hours a day with file sharing online - no need to visit a client or the office or meet your peers. Ds’s friend is ploughing along but at one point he said he wanted to jack it in as the thought of a life forever upstairs at his mum and dads sitting in a chair all day staring at a screen was torture.

That is so hard.

We have work experience coming up at a big firm will see how it goes but no doubt the interaction in an office is a huge part of the learning curve and excitement / newness of it. And agree about something like accountancy training at least the bond you get with others makes it better.

@TheKeatingFive

Ds’s friend is ploughing along but at one point he said he wanted to jack it in as the thought of a life forever upstairs at his mum and dads sitting in a chair all day staring at a screen was torture.

What an utterly depressing existence for anyone, let alone a youngster starting off in their profession.

It’s grim beyond belief.

However I think the tide will turn on this pretty fast. Once face to face meetings start becoming the norm again, there’s no justification for appalling substitutes for proper induction and training.

I don't know.

I think companies are going to see how much money they can save by this more 'efficient' way of doing business, and will look for excuses to keep it as much as possible. I hope I'm wrong.

Ds’s friend is ploughing along but at one point he said he wanted to jack it in as the thought of a life forever upstairs at his mum and dads sitting in a chair all day staring at a screen was torture.

Don’t blame him at all. We have new starts where I work and everyone’s trying their best, but it’s a rubbish experience for them and it’s harder to learn to boot. Yes we have online training for the formal things but all the thousand and one skills and tricks you learn just by being around others are so much harder to do now.

It feels sometimes as if there is a push towards reducing all of human experience down to ‘services’ which can be ‘accessed digitally’. Fine if it’s about paying your bills, maybe, but friendship, church, education, these aren’t things we can just click on a screen to replicate. And work is like that too; yes some of the functions can be done just as well or better online, but other parts require real human interaction because we’re more than just work-producing robots.

i hope I'm wrong.

I honestly think you are. All it takes is one company to go back to better practices and all the others will struggle to attract the best young talent. Savings on office space is small beans in comparison to having a below par workforce.

In the sector I’m in I’m seeing work in office Tues / Wed / Thurs and wfh other two which seems a good mix, not sure what other sectors are doing

Work seems ok on that basis but I can’t do zoom for socialising anymore. Like eating cardboard for meals compared to real thing. I hate to take rl socialising away from any group young or old.

Also re work client meetings are f2f on those days or you come in.

@DottyHarmer

It’s possible to socialise remotely

Ah, yes, here we have the usual “pulling up the ladder” attitude. So all young people can sit at home and stare at a computer screen. No need to meet people, oh no.

If @NannyAndJohn , you acquired a partner in real life or performed a job alongside colleagues you have no right to spout such utter crap about an online life being perfectly adequate.

The majority of young people seem to find their partners via online dating, and that was the case way before the pandemic.

And WFH has been far more efficient for my team at work - so much so that it's now permanent.

Limited restrictions - masks (which probably won’t have gone away anyway!), limits of events (inc weddings probably), wfh if you can etc. But doubt full lockdown will happen.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

I love team and zoom for work, saves so much time on travelling and there’s less chit chat and coffee breaks so things can be done faster so I hope many work things stay on line. Will save spreading all the usual winter bugs too or driving in bad weather.

Bingo.

Work is not for idle chit chat.

I’m not surprised some on here prefer Zoom

But for many it’s not good enough to replace rl, tg

@MarshaBradyo

In the sector I’m in I’m seeing work in office Tues / Wed / Thurs and wfh other two which seems a good mix, not sure what other sectors are doing

Work seems ok on that basis but I can’t do zoom for socialising anymore. Like eating cardboard for meals compared to real thing. I hate to take rl socialising away from any group young or old.

Also re work client meetings are f2f on those days or you come in.

Same. I'm part at home part in the office and it suits me fine. That's nhs admin and apparently staying that way (money saving!) Our office has been given away and we are moving into what used to be a large cupboard basically. Because we won't be there ft again. That's fine, but I don't zoom for my social life I go out and see the people I love.

Work is not for idle chit chat

I bet your colleagues love you @NannyAndJohn

Idle chit chat is what makes or breaks a job and I won't be told different.

I fucking love idle chit chat

@schoolmoveworrier

Work is not for idle chit chat

I bet your colleagues love you @NannyAndJohn

Idle chit chat is what makes or breaks a job and I won't be told different.

It's not that great when the team you manage have a looming deadline and they're sat on the sofas chinwagging about their weekend plans.

Thankfully WFH has cut all this shit out and everyone now focuses on the actual work.