What do you think will happen over winter?

[brideyb]

Restriction wise. I'm feeling very gloomy / anxious about it! My sister is getting married and I desperately hope it can go ahead.

My favourite was the alleged childminder saying toddlers could be strapped into a buggy whilst parents worked.

@PigeonPink

If I want to go in a crowded indoor space then that's no one else's business really, it's my risk to take The problem is though, that you’ll subsequently go to work or to a supermarket or dentist etc and take your germs with you to infect others. You’re not only putting yourself at risk, you’re putting everyone you come in contact with at risk.

Looking at people as nothing other than 'carriers' of 'germs' is a bit sad.

Believe it or not, infectious illnesses didn't suddenly happen 17 months ago. They've always been around. There's always been the risk that one person could contract a disease and spread it to others who might become very ill. That's part of life, always has been and always will.

We've lived under some form of restrictions for a year and a half. The toll on the economy, people's livliehoods and mental health, children's education and so much else, has been huge. Happily we now have not one but several very effective vaccines. Time for life to go on, with all the risks it entails.

@DottyHarmer

I’ve said this fr9m the start - people are very happy to want to “cancel” activities they don’t personally enjoy or approve of. There was a crew of posters who last year were claiming that education wasn’t necessary in a school situation - online was the future. I think they were the same people who objected to children and teens being out and about, too, so what they really wanted was a curfew on youth from 0-25, at which time they might be allowed to emerge in order to be delivery drivers I suppose.

Ah yes, the 'non-essential' police. Anything they didn't care about - whether an item of shopping or a 'frivilous' activity - was 'non-essential' and anyone who indulged, or simply wanted to indulge, could be derided as 'selfish'.

How many times have we haeard "Surely you can live without nightclubs/holidays/football/pubs/insert other 'non-essential' activity du jour?" And yes, we can. We can 'live without' just about anything other than food, water and oxygen when you really get down to it. But what's 'non-essential' for one person is very important to another, not to mention that pubs, nightclubs, 'non-essential' shops etc, keep thousands in work and pay millions into public coffers in order to keep 'essential' services going.

Small waves, encouraged to get our flu and covid booster vaxxes, masks may become mandatory again during the winter. I don't forsee any more lockdowns.

@Bordois

My favourite was the alleged childminder saying toddlers could be strapped into a buggy whilst parents worked.

It was such a lovely time. I got sneered at by one poster for selfishly putting my job before my children because I was saying I couldn’t manage both simultaneously. Mothers don’t need to work, of course, it’s all just a frivolous little hobby we do for manicure money.

Oh god, and all the people going on at anyone who wanted to have more than one shopping trip a week for things like milk… dear oh dear. It was around that time I hid this topic, and I still only venture in here intermittently.

I feel there was a point during lockdowns and the worst of the crisis where there were a lot of people all saying “yes this is crap but it’s probably the best option right now”, but they were actually in two camps: the “this is horrible but on balance necessary as a very very short-term measure” people, and the “most of this is basically fine and sensible and in fact in many ways better, let’s do it indefinitely” people.

And it’s only as the crisis eased that this has become obvious, as camp A realises camp B is not on their side and vice versa, and people in both feel disappointed and betrayed by who it turns out they were standing next to.

“Nobody likes restrictions!” Au fucking contraire.

I don't think anything will happen other than maybe mask-wearing (but most people around here haven't stopped doing that anyway). Everyone who wants to be will be vaccinated by then.

The only thing that would worry me is schools and kids passing it to each other although you'd think they'd all of had it by now.

Food prices, Brexit and climate change are another issue entirely :(

I got sneered at by one poster for selfishly putting my job before my children because I was saying I couldn’t manage both simultaneously. Mothers don’t need to work, of course, it’s all just a frivolous little hobby we do for manicure money

oh yes and all the lovely comments saying "why do you have kids if you don't want to be with them 24 hours a day" and "surely parents can teach their children". Erm no. There are very good reasons why we pay professionally trained people to teach our kids.

At the end of this we need an inquiry into all the daft restrictions and money-wasting too. Taping off park benches and play equipment, blocking off car parks, stopping people going more than 5k (or whatever distance set out by whatever country you are in) away from home, taping off "non-essential" aisles in shops etc. And that's before you get to the wasted money for PPE and test and trace and paying employers furlough whose sector was open but they decided it was a good wheeze to get the taxpayer to pay their wage bill etc etc.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Just because someone has legitimate concerns about lifting restrictions or avoids obv places for CV tranmission, doesn't make them fearful.

So someone saying they won't feel safe in a pub for 20 years isn't fearful?

How do you now what their feelings are? all your doing is labelling them as being fearful without any idea of why they have made that assessment.

As far as i can tell, Fearful (on MN) is a just word used to try an put down people with legitimate concerns.

I ve been going to pubs and our local social club which is lot busier normally (cheaper booze) but i know people who don't want to and stay outside, i don't view them as scared, their cautiousness level is higher than others thats all, might turn out they are right?

I can remember almost identical threads last summer, some of the same posters.

If people want to stay outside pubs etc no issue at all.

As long as we can all make our own decisions then fine.

It is not 'fearful' to point out that loud yelling in a confined indoors space is highly risky, and senior doctors advise against it.

Obviously people are free to know better

@RoseAndRose

It is not 'fearful' to point out that loud yelling in a confined indoors space is highly risky, and senior doctors advise against it.

Obviously people are free to know better

And you are free to never to yell indoors again.

Meanwhile those who feel low enough risk can do as they wish.

Actually it’s quite farcical to think that a senior doctor can control how loud we are inside a space and ‘advise against it’.

Although going by some posts it has hit home for some, although they’re more likely to not be in the group who yell at sports or whatever anyway.

@RoseAndRose

It is not 'fearful' to point out that loud yelling in a confined indoors space is highly risky, and senior doctors advise against it.

Obviously people are free to know better

Its fearful to assume certain death from such activity though

Actually, I think my life has pretty much gone back to normal. We have regular family get togethers, I have been out for meals with friends to numerous pubs and restaurants; my OH and I have been on holiday to Greece and I have been to the theatre twice - one involved a train journey to London. 2 500 people in the theatre, no social distancing, about 50% of people wearing masks I reckon ( I was wearing one because my friend is CV).

To date, no-one in my family or circle of friends has had covid

I ve been going to pubs and our local social club which is lot busier normally (cheaper booze) but i know people who don't want to and stay outside, i don't view them as scared, their cautiousness level is higher than others thats all, might turn out they are right?

Might turn out they are right.

Might turn out they are wrong.

Who knows?

The point is, at this stage people should be free to make their own risk assessments.

@RoseAndRose

It is not 'fearful' to point out that loud yelling in a confined indoors space is highly risky, and senior doctors advise against it.

Obviously people are free to know better

"Senior doctors" advise against all sorts of things though.

Most of us don't live our lives according to what 'senior doctors' say. In fact, I bet most 'senior doctors' don't even follow their own advice much of the time.

It's not 'farcical' it's just a different version of what Whitty and Vallence have been saying at all the recent press briefings. It's really very mainstream comment. Even Boris has been banging on about the need for caution.

Yes, people are free to take or not take the advice. Just as they are free to take or ignore all other health advice, in the full expectation that NHS will pick up the pieces if it all goes wrong.

It's essentially the same argument used by those who think the indoors smoking ban should be optional too.

@RoseAndRose

It's not 'farcical' it's just a different version of what Whitty and Vallence have been saying at all the recent press briefings. It's really very mainstream comment. Even Boris has been banging on about the need for caution.

Yes, people are free to take or not take the advice. Just as they are free to take or ignore all other health advice, in the full expectation that NHS will pick up the pieces if it all goes wrong.

It's essentially the same argument used by those who think the indoors smoking ban should be optional too.

It really is.

What do you want no shouting posters in pubs?

Exactly how will you enforce it?

If you're only looking at activities from the perspective of 'is there a risk I might get ill/injured here', then presumably all senior doctors would also advise against drinking alcohol and playing rugby, both of which can land you in hospital and lead to long-term health complications.

In reality most people don't expect everything in their lives to be 100% risk-free. I know that if I go to the pub there is a very very slight risk I will catch something nasty and end up ill for a while. I will still go to the pub because avoiding illness doesn't trump every other consideration.

It's essentially the same argument used by those who think the indoors smoking ban should be optional too.

It really isn't.

Smoking indoors directly causes harm and can easily be avoided by those individuals who make the active choice to smoke. It's also easy to enforce.

Are you saying that shouting in pubs should be banned? Really?

I really hope that teachers are given priority for boosters in the autumn so we can continue to work. The mental strain of working in classrooms with no mitigation and no vaccination pushed many teachers close to breaking point in December and March. Since being vaccinated, I am able to do my job in relative safety again which feels good. After this term, I don’t think anyone can claim classrooms are safe and children don’t spread Covid. I’m happy for schools to stay open if school staff are protected, although I would assume there will be some disruption as teachers will still be off sick if they catch Covid even mildly.

Schools will be the place to watch if children remain unvaccinated. On the plus side, I’m quite enjoying going to the cinema, theatre, restaurants and on as it all seems so safe compared to school. A lot of people who worked from home are really struggling with it all.

In the point of schools, I wonder if those who prove they’ve tested positive can avoid isolation in future?

Restrictions will only be bought in if hospitals are struggling to cope. Boris knows the public won't comply with Christmas restrictions based purely on guesswork.

@IcedPurple

It's essentially the same argument used by those who think the indoors smoking ban should be optional too.

It really isn't.

Smoking indoors directly causes harm and can easily be avoided by those individuals who make the active choice to smoke. It's also easy to enforce.

Are you saying that shouting in pubs should be banned? Really?

No of course I'm not.

If you read my posts without assuming I'dm'fearful' or a lockdown lover, you'll see that what I said is that it's worth listening to senior doctors (the one in the article, plus Whitty/Vallence etc) no that some activities reallynare too risky.

But yes, the smoky room example is a bad one, because you wouid know when smoke is present, but even so going in to a smoky room occasionally won't really harm most people (except perhaps some who have medical conditions may well also be covid CEV/CV). With a highly prevalent infectious disease, there is no useful indication (like smell) that the room is a risk, and even one exposure could be enough.