The UK may have got it right

[VioletRiemelt]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-57911032

Australians back in lockdown, while our restrictions are gone. Our exit wave could be over by September.

I totally agree we stuffed up 2020 but as this thing will still be ongoing in 2022 and maybe longer, my view is that it’ll be “over” for us quicker. I honestly thing Aus and NZ the will still be in the Covid midst for most of 2022 if not into 2023. There media right now looks like us in April 2020. All the same discussions we had then.
We are also sliding down the death rate table whereas other countries are rising.
Valance said at the start of this it would be 2 years plus before we could really see how strategy’s worked and I think that’s right.
A lot of the countries mentioned have not created vaccines. Why aren’t they being criticised for their lack of R and D in developing them. They’ve essentially crossed their fingers and hoped other countries come up with the solution. Luckily for them other countries have including us here in the U.K..
the ideal scenario seems to be a combination of elimination and then huge efforts in R&D and vaccine / manufacture and roll out.
Countries that have done well pre vaccine have struggled in a post vaccine world and vice versa.

A lot of the countries mentioned have not created vaccines. Why aren’t they being criticised for their lack of R and D in developing them

Maybe not criticised as such but I do find this interesting.

@LemonRoses

You've confused Guernsey with Jersey there.

No, I’m meaning the Bailiwick of Jersey. One of highest testing and lowest infection rates in Europe. Testing put in place early at point of entry. Early border closure. Lots of very good practice sufficient healthcare infrastructure to cope.

Yes jersey have been able to do this but you can hardly argue they are a country/ island anyone else could copy even if they wanted to. And where did they get their vaccines from to allow them to achieve this success you might ask? yes that’s right the U.K. Gibraltar similarly has the highest vaccination rates probably in the world, almost 100%. How come it has vaccine rates so high, so quickly? Well the U.K. supplied them. Nothing wrong with that, it’s exactly what we should be doing but to hold them up as examples is a bit disingenuous when they have piggy backed on to another countries R&D and supply.

I actually think this is potentially a good model going forward. Larger nations able to create and manufacture vaccines should take responsibility for other smaller nations in their geographical regions.
Similar model to EU but more expansive. So US takes responsibility for South America. Europe for Africa and China for Asia.

Covax seems to be struggling, lots of pledges but not enough vaccine. Partly because when the idea was envisaged, it was thought virus X would affect the third world first and mostly. But the opposite happened and rich countries have stockpiled for themselves.

I doubt you can just start R&D and vaccine development if you don't have the infrastructure and expertise. That said, it's still been very much a global effort. This has been interesting www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000xz33. And we shouldn’t forget that a sizeable chunk of funding came from overseas government www.theguardian.com/science/2021/apr/15/oxfordastrazeneca-covid-vaccine-research-was-97-publicly-funded

As others have said, “got it right” applied to any country is incredibly crass in any case.

AgreeR&D hugely expensive and time consuming. But countries that do commit to it and have succeeded should be commended.
Neither Japan nor Singapore have created vaccines as far as I am aware? Australia tried but it failed early on but they can manufacture AZ. New Zealand hasn’t even tried and doesn’t manufacture. Every vaccine they get is reliant on others producing and sending it to them. It’s a risky strategy for them but this aspect gets glossed over.

China have produced about 3 vaccines , Europe and the US obviously too.

New Zealand hasn’t even tried and doesn’t manufacture. Every vaccine they get is reliant on others producing and sending it to them. It’s a risky strategy for them but this aspect gets glossed over.

What exactly do you mean by this? NZ has a contract for receiving their vaccines, and they have been delivered exactly as promised. What exactly is being "glossed over" and what is so risky?

I wonder in the future whether countries such as NZ will invest more into R and D

Let’s be clear, it’s not the UK government that has created vaccines. I don’t see Switzerland claiming their success with the AZ vaccine.

Despite Johnson’s claim it was Capitalism that allowed it, it was mainly public and charitable funds that allowed the research. Public does not necessarily and entirely mean U.K. public. In fact, funding of the research was greater from outside the U.K. charitable funding was nearly as high as U.K. funding.

Meanwhile has increased core profits of about $65 billion.

The part the government played was in agreeing early approval and rollout.

@Mandalay246

New Zealand hasn’t even tried and doesn’t manufacture. Every vaccine they get is reliant on others producing and sending it to them. It’s a risky strategy for them but this aspect gets glossed over.

What exactly do you mean by this? NZ has a contract for receiving their vaccines, and they have been delivered exactly as promised. What exactly is being "glossed over" and what is so risky?

My point is not that they haven’t bought any from others. Obvs they have. It’s that it’s a risky strategy to rely on others and have no means to create or even manufacture vaccines domestically. What if Pfizer had failed? Luckily it didn’t

I do think all first world nations including NZ should be able to manufacture their own vaccine supply and it’s remiss not to be able to do so. It then takes pressure off the manufacturers in Europe / India etc who can concentrate on other countries.
It’s a conversation for the future.
It’s better for the country too , it’s a strategic asset like being able to grow your own food / energy etc.

09:07LemonRoses

What about manufacture? Seems like a key element to omit.

@sashagabadon - given the shit show that the UK has been over the past year (and continues to be) I don't think it is up to you to tell other countries what to do! I daresay our government and scientists are capable of working out for themselves whether or not it is worthwhile investing in the manufacturing of vaccines - or anything else. It's sweet FA to do with you.

@AnotherDayAnotherCake

Ask me again in September and my response will depend on whether my DC are allowed to go to school.

Yes. Me too.

Mandalay, it’s a chat forum. No need to be so defensive
Plenty of people all over the world including NZ comment literally all the time on the U.K. and what we are doing here. We have to put up with it here and can agree or disagree. Likewise we can comment on other countries strategies too both positively and negatively.
It’s fine really to listen to criticism and decide whether you agree or not and not to take personal offence, we can all learn from each other.

@Paddling654

09:07LemonRoses

What about manufacture? Seems like a key element to omit.

I was responding to people talking about research programmes to develop vaccines, as mentioned above

[quote Mandalay246]@sashagabadon - given the shit show that the UK has been over the past year (and continues to be) I don't think it is up to you to tell other countries what to do! I daresay our government and scientists are capable of working out for themselves whether or not it is worthwhile investing in the manufacturing of vaccines - or anything else. It's sweet FA to do with you.[/quote]
Woah.

Touched a nerve!

Quite! Funny how people outside the U.K. can call the U.K. a “shit show” on a U.K. based forum and that is ok but people on the same forum can’t point out that vaccine manufacture is hugely important , arguably the only thing that matters now imo.

You don't have to be a scientist to suggest that it probably is worth a rich country bothering to invest in vaccine development, yes.

The UK has got the vaccine rollout right, nothing else. A catalogue of late decisions and mistakes by the Prime Minister who should be in a court of law for the avoidable deaths that have occurred.

The UK has got the vaccine rollout right, nothing else. A catalogue of late decisions and mistakes by the Prime Minister who should be in a court of law for the avoidable deaths that have occurred.
@newnortherner111. I agree.

@sashagabadon

Quite! Funny how people outside the U.K. can call the U.K. a “shit show” on a U.K. based forum and that is ok but people on the same forum can’t point out that vaccine manufacture is hugely important , arguably the only thing that matters now imo.

I have to remind you that scientists all over the world co-operated to get these vaccines happening so soon. It wasn't one country or other.

@LemonRoses

Let’s be clear, it’s not the UK government that has created vaccines. I don’t see Switzerland claiming their success with the AZ vaccine.

Despite Johnson’s claim it was Capitalism that allowed it, it was mainly public and charitable funds that allowed the research. Public does not necessarily and entirely mean U.K. public. In fact, funding of the research was greater from outside the U.K. charitable funding was nearly as high as U.K. funding.

Meanwhile has increased core profits of about $65 billion.

The part the government played was in agreeing early approval and rollout.

This isn't quite the case as I see it.

The vaccine task force was set up by the government and was provided with support and funding by the government (although I think the idea was originally Patrick Vallance's).

There is a documentary by Channel 4 called something like "Jabbed - the story of the U.K's vaccine success" which was really interesting!

I agree with the above.
Everything in the Uk has been a shit show apart from the vaccination program.
Everything.

That’s a really good point about New Zealand. All here posters saying “why aren’t we NZ?” Well, if we had been them we’d be sitting here with no vaccine, just waiting for someone else to provide one.

@Sunshinegirl82 be careful saying anything too positive about the U.K. It’s a complete shit show according to many here including @VaccineSticker. Would love to see where vaccinesticker would like to live honestly.

@Sunshinegirl82 I think you will find it’s Sweden not Switzerland.