The UK may have got it right

[VioletRiemelt]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-57911032

Australians back in lockdown, while our restrictions are gone. Our exit wave could be over by September.

@3asAbird you do realise that the media thrive on scare stories such as ‘SEND THE ARMY IN’ don’t you. Makes people click.

I think the problem for the UK is that the Government get so wedded to the idea of the 'plan' that they refuse to acknowledge when it's going awry until it is far too late:

1. Christmas plan would have been ok without Kent variant cropping up but then clinging onto 'Plan A' led to a disastrous start to 2021 and most children not being in school for 2 1/2 months. They announced indoor mixing for 3households at Christmas a month before beginning the vaccine programme for goodness sake!

2. Summer21 opening up without any restrictions would have been a completely different ballgame without Delta. I'm pretty sure the UK plan didn't include the health minister having Covid and the PM isolating on 'freedom day'?

We have a population of 66 million but a limited capacity for people needing to be in ICU

Wave 1 The highest number on ventilators was 3,301 on 12/04/20
Wave 2 highest number on ventilators was 4,077 on 24/01/21 (unfortunately following the Christmas mixing)

So we are a long way short of these figures but remember we were in full lockdown when they occurred and it only took 2months to end up in lockdown each time. I just want:

1. my friend (40s) to have their operation to remove a cancerous tumour in August
2. the schools to be able to stay open come September
3. to go on my UK break in August

Data not dates. They sold us the idea that vaccines alone were the 'solution' to living with Covid, does that still stand with Delta?

Just because the media thrive on scare stories does not mean all scary stories are untrue.

It is not easy but it is necessary for a reader/watcher to find some way to distinguish between a scare story and a genuinely scary story.

One of the reasons both the USA and the UK have struggled during Covid is we have a readership who are prone to shouting 'fake news' at anything they don't like. We are all a bit biased, but that is different from not believing anything you read, and there is a worrying amount of Covid denial based only on the belief that the media is always lying.

@lannistunut nope I am not saying everything is untrue just that the media has not behaved the MOST responsibly during this crisis and stories of shelves being empty does one thing and one thing only…..makes people panic and guess what - buy more than they need which makes it look the shelves are empty. Positive reinforcement.

I certainly would not be quoting The Sun as @3asAbird did put it that way!

Absolutely agree with @RumblyMumbly

Was ranting about this at work the other day (to my colleagues delight I am sure ) - Johnson had this plan laid out and was sticking to it come what may. That four week delay must have nearly killed him. Data not dates my arse.

They sold us the idea that vaccines alone were the 'solution' to living with Covid, does that still stand with Delta? Looking uncertain.

[quote Blessex]@lannistunut nope I am not saying everything is untrue just that the media has not behaved the MOST responsibly during this crisis and stories of shelves being empty does one thing and one thing only…..makes people panic and guess what - buy more than they need which makes it look the shelves are empty. Positive reinforcement.

I certainly would not be quoting The Sun as @3asAbird did put it that way![/quote]
Yes it does prompt panic buying - but the shelves are empty in some places and not reporting it would be censorship.

The supply chain issues are not made up.

They should do what most EU countries ended up doing and offer AZ to anyone who wants it, while being aware of the risks.

Anything to speed up the vaccination programme

I think given the vaccinaton programme is slowing they should definitely be encouraging anyone to go at any time now and make it much more drop in for first doses.

@TheKeatingFive well the Netherlands didn’t do that. They refused to let my DH in his 50s have AZ. He was going mad at the fact he couldn’t choose. Had to wait a couple more months for Pfizer while I, younger than him, was fully vaccinated.

@lannistunut they will fill up again when the weather cools down! We aren’t going to starve as a nation in the meantime.

[quote Blessex]@lannistunut they will fill up again when the weather cools down! We aren’t going to starve as a nation in the meantime.[/quote]
I think you're really missing the point of the issue, no one thinks we are going to starve, but it is a clear indication that things are not working correctly.

Another anecdote - my ex DH (italian) - fully vaccinated in the U.K. while his parents in Italy hadn’t had one jab. His DM ended up in hospital intubated with pneumonia. Thankfully came through.

They refused to let my DH in his 50s have AZ. He was going mad at the fact he couldn’t choose.

Nuts really.

In Ireland they had loads of rules at the start, but we’re now at the stage where everyone can have anything going. Delta focused the collective mind.

@lannistunut no but they will settle and no need to panic buy or write headlines such as BRING IN THE ARMY.

Media has been awful generally on all sides of the political divide. No idea what can be done about it, probably nothing as the alternative is a non- free press which would be worse. So I think as a nation we have to suck up the sensationalism and both the doom mongering and sunlit uplands narrative.
I do think we are learning to judge it better. I have one conspiracy mad colleague, from March 2020 she has been full of all the Facebook nonsense and believing it all fake, was refusing vaccine due to fertility etc. She is much more nuanced and sensible now.
So I have hope!
Trouble I think is that even “respectable” scientists are becoming more political and starting to make judgements based on their politics and their Twitter group alignment rather than a more balanced nuanced position rather than just whether they hate Boris or not.
I hope those people reflect back when this is all over.

[quote Blessex]@lannistunut no but they will settle and no need to panic buy or write headlines such as BRING IN THE ARMY.[/quote]
Honestly, I think this is part of holding a government to account.

Things are not working correctly, and if everyone just says 'nothing to see here' the government would let it get even worse.

I think there is a reason for those headlines - because the government is not governing responsibly or in the best interests of us.

@lannistunut I don’t disagree with you and of course I want a free press and to hold our government to account. I just think that SOME of our media is irresponsible and causes more panic, anxiety and positive reinforcement of the situation for the sake of clickbait that’s all. I tend to stick to the less sensational press.

I am not sure a relentlessly negative press is helpful all the time although I agree all government needs holding to account and diverse opinions are good. We’d still be in lockdown now if we just left it for Labour to oppose the government and so anti lockdown voices and press help move the country forward.
I’m unconvinced Piers Morgan screaming at any poor government minister on his show last year was helpful, it was a distraction and caused public panic instead.
The nation following the progress of one flight of ppe from Turkey last April was bonkers looking back but arguably helped to organise and speed up domestic ppe production.
But equally the government is sometimes best left alone. An example of this is the vaccine procurement strategy which was quietly getting on with things in the background. Labours main interventions on this were completely and utterly wrong, criticising Kate Bingham and saying we should have joined the EU procurement process. Thank god they were ignored.

Piers Morgan was a disgrace. I stopped watching as it was so awful - I remember his screaming about construction workers standing on the Piccadilly line platform .

The papers want clicks and therefore ones like The Daily Mail will have half the cover with a doom story and the other half about angry people being made to quarantine - so all bases are covered. Basically it’s The End of the World but Don’t Stop me Going on My Holidays.

The local press is also terrible. Another thread entirely, but my local paper is a shadow of its former self. Anyway, they desperately need hits so every day it’s something akin to “Shock as deaths double in Pantshire. !!!” So you read the piece only to discover that deaths have indeed doubled - from one person to two.

@Notonthestairs

Masks, spending money on ventilation in schools and colleges (for flu & CV) and the choice of vaccines for over 12 would be good.

Totally agree with this. Opening up, sure. But taking basic steps to make our country safer would be a good idea. Possibly making the country a little more 'pandemic ready' in case this happens again (or another variant comes along).

Hopefully people will naturally give each other a little more room in queues and the enhanced importance of hand washing will continue as will enhanced cleaning for busy pubs etc. Couldn't be a bad thing!

@sashagabadon Media has been awful generally on all sides of the political divide Agreed

Trouble I think is that even “respectable” scientists are becoming more political and starting to make judgements based on their politics and their Twitter group alignment rather than a more balanced nuanced position rather than just whether they hate Boris or not. I hope those people reflect back when this is all over

Then your own next post goes on to some party political point scoring against Labour

So do you think the vaccines are going to be enough to stop the Delta wave of hospitalisations from getting bad enough to send the country into lockdown?

My criticism of Labour on their vaccine response isn’t party political. It’s fair comment surely? They were wrong.

However I completely agree with their position on vaccine passports. They are right about that. I don’t say that as a party political point against the government but as my own opinion.

And yes I am optimistic about the vaccines v delta. I have been following a Twitter account called Mac n chise.
No idea actually who they are but they seem very apolitical and about the science. They are optimistic and so I am happy to accept their analysis.

What is an “exit wave”?

@sashagabadon and from your other dig We’d still be in lockdown now if we just left it for Labour to oppose the government so presumably you are in favour of the Government removing all restrictions /enacting step 4 as they have?

So, do you think the vaccines are going to be enough to stop the Delta wave of hospitalisations from getting bad enough to send the country into lockdown?