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Mandatory vaccines for care workers now law.

320 replies

MercyBooth · 20/07/2021 23:46

Big Brother Watch
@BigBrotherWatch
·
2h
Police cars revolving lightBREAKING

Mandatory vaccines for care workers is now law. Millions more workers will be affected.

The House of Lords passed the new law after just 90 minutes debate, with a regret motion noting there is insufficient evidence for it and that the severity of impact is unknown.

twitter.com/BigBrotherWatch/status/1417573871130234883?s=20

OP posts:
ZednotZee · 23/07/2021 22:20

@underneaththeash

Which is relevant to my point in what way exactly?

ZednotZee · 23/07/2021 22:37

It is ok though. You stood on your doorstep and clapped for them last year. Now you can call them selfish and insist they get fired.

The clapping was ridiculous propaganda from the government.
They know that a majority of NHS workers would lap it up after years of being derided by the government and extension the public. In a way it wasn't in their interests to draw attention to the strange way in which covid appeared to be quite selective about who it targeted because whilst the narrative was of a deadly and indiscriminate virus which nobody was safe from, but they, the heroes went to the coal face, like soldiers to battle it every day they experienced a temporary reprieve from public scrutiny.

Then it was suddenly 'clap for carers' and the 'carer badges were distributed to those working in SC. As an aside that has now served its purpose and been disbanded entirely now the narrative has changed to vilifying those who choose not to consent to the vaccine.

Care was only ever added on as an afterthought, when they were worried about their mismanagement of placing covid +ve patients in to nursing homes was about to be thrown in to sharp relief.
Best get the care staff on side too, can't have them blowing the fear narrative...

This has all been planned ten steps ahead.

The government aren't bumbling Idiots.

Their execution of the whole situation has fooled ninety percent of the population, Conservative estimate.

underneaththeash · 23/07/2021 22:56

Well you can hardly be a decent primary health care practitioner if you don’t keep your patients safe.

underneaththeash · 23/07/2021 22:59

You need to have your vaccine or just choose another career.

There is no place in health care for anti-vaccine nutters - for obvious reasons.

MercyBooth · 23/07/2021 23:04

The clapping was ridiculous propaganda from the government

YES This is another thing covered in the book that must not be named.

OP posts:
ZednotZee · 23/07/2021 23:22

@inderneaththeash

Honestly, do you imagine that such an articulate and well considered response will have me marching to the vaccine centre poste haste?

If you are an HCP they clearly need to up the entry requirements quite significantly.

ZednotZee · 23/07/2021 23:23

@MercyBooth

I'm intrigued.

Will you pm me the name of the book?

MercyBooth · 23/07/2021 23:39

Certainly. Smile

OP posts:
foxandbee · 23/07/2021 23:40

I am not sure why the book cannot be named I don't think mention of it is banned by MNHQ in the way Mercy suggests. If my post is deleted then I will humbly apologise to Mercy.

The book is State of Fear by Laura Dodsworth (I think that is her name).

ZednotZee · 23/07/2021 23:41

Thank you, both Smile

foxandbee · 23/07/2021 23:41

I assume that is the book you mean Mercy!

ZednotZee · 23/07/2021 23:44

I've just downloaded it via amazon so its readily available.

I hope it was the same one you alluded to @MercyBooth

MercyBooth · 23/07/2021 23:44

Yes thats the one

OP posts:
leafyygreens · 23/07/2021 23:50

@MercyBooth

The clapping was ridiculous propaganda from the government

YES This is another thing covered in the book that must not be named.

eh? a state of fear by laura dodsworth isn't some banned book that needs to be made exciting by the idea that any mention of it is forbidden

the problem is threads centred around it draw in the repeating NC posters who like to spread misinformation and anti-vax crap so tend to get deleted

ZednotZee · 23/07/2021 23:56

the problem is threads centred around it draw in the repeating NC posters who like to spread misinformation and anti-vax crap so tend to get deleted

The pro vaxx contingent are as, if not more ardent than the so called anti vaxxers.

Being as we are discussing the effects of a new, prophylactic medical treatment being utilised at population level, I see no reason why those who are opposed to it on variously; ideological, individual, moral or health grounds should be silenced on an ostensibly non partisan forum any more than those who are wholly in support of the treatment.

The fact that they seem to be is as telling as it is troubling.

leafyygreens · 24/07/2021 00:02

@ZednotZee

the problem is threads centred around it draw in the repeating NC posters who like to spread misinformation and anti-vax crap so tend to get deleted

The pro vaxx contingent are as, if not more ardent than the so called anti vaxxers.

Being as we are discussing the effects of a new, prophylactic medical treatment being utilised at population level, I see no reason why those who are opposed to it on variously; ideological, individual, moral or health grounds should be silenced on an ostensibly non partisan forum any more than those who are wholly in support of the treatment.

The fact that they seem to be is as telling as it is troubling.

@zednotzee

"Anti vax crap" as I said, i.e. misinformation about vaccine safety and efficacy is not beneficial to anyone.

People need to make an informed choice and being constantly bombarded with shite that has no robust evidence behind it is not helpful in letting this happen. Vaccine hysteria is all over MN with posters convinced they're going to die after it happens and preparing to say goodbye to their children, it's so damaging.

No one should be coerced into not taking up a vaccine because of this, or terrified because they already have done.

ZednotZee · 24/07/2021 00:22

Agreed.

Similarly nobody should be coerced in to taking a medical treatment that they are not wholly convinced is in their best interests.

Tbh I would be very pleased if everybody just stayed out of everybody else's personal decison making process regarding the covid vaccines.

If they are overwhelming safe then the facts will convince people irrespective of other people's dissenting view.

Similarly if they are in any way malign this will become obvious given the advantage of the passing of time.

And that is the only thing being denied to social care staff, which is unfair whichever way you look at it
If it was across the board for the NHS and SC then I may be less suspicious of the governmental agenda.
As it currently stands, I'm sorry but it stinks.

Iquitit · 24/07/2021 00:25

@Intercity225

People are pushed into applying for and accepting care work because they are sanctioned if not, and employers are taking them because they care very little for the residents they're getting paid to provide care for and they just need the hours filled, and even then it's the bare minimum staffing they can get away with.

You are pushing a certain view of care homes, which may be your experience of where you have worked; but not all are like that.

Ime, the ones run by charities do care for the residents, because they are not running a business and there is no profit motive. DD is in a care home, where she gets 1:1 care for all her waking hours, and 1:4 at night. Other residents, because of their behaviour may get 2:1, 3:1 or even 4:1. I'd hardly call that the bare minimum staffing? Do you know how much it costs - although DD gets continuing health care funding; and those who don't, will be funded by their local authority?

Iirc, the initial training program is 17 days, and then they do shadowing for a while. However, they get back up from onsite clinical psychologists, social workers, GPs, clinical specialist nurses, mental health nurses, learning disability nurses, speech and language therapists, OTs, and physiotherapists. For instance, if DD's behaviour is getting worse, they will seek advice from the Positive Behaviour Support Team.

However, I do think care workers should be vaccinated. The rest of us have had to take a leap of faith, because we can't see any other way out of this pandemic (apart from letting it rip through the population); and if we have had to swallow any misgivings, then I don't know why anti vaxxers are more special and they put all of us at risk. As for talking about "We want control over what we put in our bodies!" - what about particulates from diesel vehicles, pollution in the air, sewage discharges into seas and rivers, nuclear power, pesticides, antibiotics in farming.....I take it you all eat organic produce?

In 2019 84% of care homes were privately owned by 'for profit' businesses.

So the non for profit charities are in the minority, so no not "all are like that" but the overall experience is likely to be from a for profit business than not.

I'm glad to hear your DDs home has good staff and standards, as well as staffing levels, it's heartening to know to be honest, but I have found that services for younger people tend to be better staffed, I worked in a home for young adults that had a staff ratio of 3:1 at night and 3:2 during the day and was 1:1 for outings - I am currently working 2:16 and that includes 3 people who need hoisting and an end of life resident - all of which need 2 staff present, night and day.
Is the difference funding/fees I wonder?

I don't know how much each individual home costs, it's based on so many things that I couldn't possibly really, I know it is expensive though, although for most homes it covers every expense of life except personal items like hairdressing etc and 24/7 care.
It sounds like your DDs home is putting that back into the care of the people paying, which is how it should be. That should be the model followed by anyone providing care services.

We have GP support, and services set up for care homes to access directly for certain things, however as with everything in the NHS the waiting times are long and what they can actually offer is limited, and has been more so through covid for obvious reasons. Just as an example, care staff now use video calling to a doctor to verify death, no one attends in person, that's quite a responsibility.

And no I don't eat organically, I couldn't afford to even if I wanted to, however I have also been vaccinated so where I'm concerned it's a bit of a non point, I don't have an issue with getting the vaccine personally.

My issue isn't with the vaccine, or a broader vaccination program becoming mandatory, it's with the way the whole thing has been dealt with, the way I feel care workers are continuing to be treated and the demands and expectations placed upon them for very little in return, the blame that's placed and this attitude that the only problem with care and how it's been handled is covid vaccination and once people have stopped shouting about it, it'll all go back to normal and no one will give a stuff any more.
At some point enough has got to be enough and people have got to start treating care workers as worthy members of society rather than the dregs who can't do any better and that means better training, pay, conditions and recognition.

Vivana · 24/07/2021 00:31

I left social.care as was sick of the bad pay and the long hours with no breaks due to being understaffed. I had.my.vaccines early in the year. I won't forget the residents tho they need protecting in any way they can but staff also need to be protected more with unions stepping in. One union managed to.get care workers a rate of £9.01 per hour that's a insult

MillyMolly123 · 24/07/2021 00:31

Ok, not read the whole thread so forgive me if I’m repeating others…

I think the point is that the vaccine is still in the testing stage. Some people are worried about long term effects, especially those with underlying health issues (heart, for example).

I don’t think they’re being unreasonable at all. I notice a few posters up thread saying “I had to have x jab for my job, what’s the difference?” The difference is that the jab you had to have was fully tested and you fully understood the risk.

Have we all suddenly forgotten about the thalidomide tragedy? Health officials certainly do not always get thing right… the vaccine has been rushed out - people have a right to be wary and should be allowed to make the choice themselves.

I’m not anti vax, I’ve had my first jab and am booked in for my second. However, I do think mandating before the testing phase is complete is wrong, and fully support those who are refusing to conform.

Also, I find it disgusting to pick on the already undervalued and underpaid care sector.

Vivana · 24/07/2021 00:34

I will also never forget the nursing I had to do when covid broke out in the home due to the hospital sending back a resident who had covid. I was totally broke when I was caring for residents who had covid and didn't make it. I got signed off work with ptsd

vodkaredbullgirl · 24/07/2021 02:02

We are so glad none of our residents came down with covid. Work in dementia and would have gone through the home like wild fire.

foxandbee · 24/07/2021 06:48

Still in the testing phase. Thalidomide. I think I need my anti-vax bingo card...

ivykaty44 · 24/07/2021 07:01

@MillyMolly123 Testing phase? How many people do they normal use for this testing phase you talk about and how long in time is the testing phase on other vaccinations?

chocolateorangeinhaler · 24/07/2021 07:21

@MercyBooth

Yes Because people infected with Covid were discharged into care homes without testing.
Yes because people who couldn't breathe needed a ventilator.

Would you have preferred them to die?

Who would you save, the 49 year old with kids or a 93 year old with dementia?

Very difficult decisions had to me made.

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