World Health Organisation criticises UK reopening and says it's 'too early to talk about freedom'

[UndercoverToad]

The WHO has taken a strong stance against England's plans for reopening over the last few days, and a spokesperson has used perhaps some of the strongest words yet.

Dr David Nabarro, the WHO's special envoy on COVID-19, said the "pandemic is advancing ferociously around the world" and "I don't think we've anywhere near got through the worst of it".

Asked about the government's switch to personal responsibility, he told Radio 4's Today programme: "All this doesn't quite fit with the position that was taken by Britain, along with other nations, some months ago when there was a real effort to try to prevent large numbers of people getting the disease, partly because of the risk of death and partly because of the recognition of the risk of long COVID.

"It's necessary to be unequivocal on this particular challenge. What does urging caution mean? It's important that everybody knows the best possible advice on how to prevent themselves being infected.

"I accept that vaccination has changed the nature of the equation in the UK but quite honestly from any point of view it's too early to be talking about massive relaxation or freedom when the outbreak curve is on such a sharp ascent.

"Yes, relax, but don't have these mixed messages about what's going on. This dangerous virus hasn't gone away, it's variants are coming back and are threatening those who have already been vaccinated - we have to take it seriously."

Yes, this is a standpoint that has considerable support from many areas of the scientific community.

But seems to be blasphemous on MN

@UnmentionedElephantDildo thankfully, I don’t think Mumsnet is representative of society on the whole.

What on Earth are the government up to?!?!

They are prioritising the economy / people's livelihoods over lives.

its going to be a total shitshow

I don't think freedom day does realistically prioritise the economy. It is a massive gamble and like "saving Xmas", I can't believe it will pay off.
Restrictions (apart from school isolation) aren't so bad now. Allowing nightclubs to reopen was a spectacularly bad decision in the Netherlands and will be here too.

It is very difficult. I think we are getting freedom now for a few reasons, 1) the winter is likely to be very very bad, people are more likely to comply with the restrictions again if they have had a break. 2) they want this covid wave to happen now before schools go back and winter pressures ramp up. 3) we need a functioning economy, businesses need the chance to get some money in the bank and also into treasury coffers. There won't be an NHS otherwise.
That said I think Boris is a terrible communicator and the messaging around the unlocking has been dreadful. All he seems to care about is people liking him. That is not leadership.

As another poster said - it’s going to be a shit show.

Boris knew he couldn’t back down on his “freedom day” date but I think he’s totally shitting himself because he knows it’s all going to go horribly wrong...

@Ooodlesofboodles I think the language of ‘freedom’ has been misleading - and ‘irreversible’.

I agree if we are going to open up, now is the time - but I think - with the thought in people’s minds that we are free/no more restrictions - people will minimise the virus and not take precautions that they otherwise would. Result - infection rate increases even higher.
If restrictions are needed again (highly possible) he is going to face a very high level of resistance.

@savvy7

They are prioritising the economy / people's livelihoods over lives.

No, if we get mass hospitalisations again we get another bloody lockdown, which is the worst thing possible for the economy.

I’m so tired of Boris’ yo-yo approach. A middle path is possible. Real caution whilst keeping most things open.

He’s probably hoping people will forget the irreversible thing. They know everyone keeps voting for them anyway and they’ll just move onto the next thing.

Irreversible will just join the long line of other things he’s said and haven’t happened since he became PM.

Totally agree OP the comms have been and are dreadful.
Restrictions will come back but I think people will be spooked by this wave and will comply again.

We've been locked down for a lot longer than the rest of Europe /the world. We do need to see how effective the vaccines are. If not, what's the point?!

@ThornAmongstRoses

As another poster said - it’s going to be a shit show.

Boris knew he couldn’t back down on his “freedom day” date but I think he’s totally shitting himself because he knows it’s all going to go horribly wrong...

I don’t think he is shitting himself. I think he bumbles about assuming ‘something’ will turn up/ it will work out in the end.

His self-regard doesn’t allow him to acknowledge he’s making catastrophic mistakes. “Good Old Boris™️ will muddle through somehow” seems to be the story he tells himself.

Last year the peerless Marina Hyde summed him up brilliantly. “He wanted to become Prime Minister and he wants to have been Prime Minister. It’s the bit in the middle, actually doing the job, he’s not keen on.”

It's absolute madness. We already have quite a lot of freedom now..this is a middle ground between lockdown and no lockdown. It's a global pandemic FFS!
It would be very easy and effective to just keep masks for indoor places. Cannot fathom why they aren't doing this. It's such an easy win in trying to bring numbers down

The message from the WHO is totally incoherent. The statement for example that
It's important that everybody knows the best possible advice on how to prevent themselves being infected.

People are getting infected on a constant basis, lockdown or no lockdown. People are being vaccinated as a way of preventing infection. You can follow 'the best possible advice,' go into hospital and get it. It's a virus that is literally everywhere. So unless you're going to spend your whole life avoiding it, there really has to be a hard limit on what you to prevent infection - it's totally unsustainable and essentially pointless. The WHO seems to think that all that matter is delaying infection with covid, that whatever life you might want to live in the meantime is not very important. They need to start using some logic, really. They can't keep on banging this same drum - it's been 16 months, everything has been tried including a massive vaccination drive, there are other things in life, the world has to get on with things. Their constant emphasis of this one disease, to the detriment of everything else, is beyond pathological at this point. Where is their sense of perspective? Their concern about people as whole human beings, beyond their status as disease vectors? Why are they determined to keep everyone afraid and constantly hiding out?

This whole opening-up is driven by right-wing libertarian ideology - limited government and personal freedom. But a pandemic can never be controlled by individuals, it’s through collective actions as a society that we can keep the pandemic under control. So when people are given a free choice to wear face masks and choose not to, they are taking away everyone else’s freedom to be protected as part of the collective. Many members of society, and certainly posters on here, pursue individual gain, rather than behave in the whole group’s best long-term interest, thus resulting in a collective loss. This is what will happen over the summer months leading to more punitive restrictions in the autumn.

@IloveSooty424

This whole opening-up is driven by right-wing libertarian ideology - limited government and personal freedom. But a pandemic can never be controlled by individuals, it’s through collective actions as a society that we can keep the pandemic under control. So when people are given a free choice to wear face masks and choose not to, they are taking away everyone else’s freedom to be protected as part of the collective. Many members of society, and certainly posters on here, pursue individual gain, rather than behave in the whole group’s best long-term interest, thus resulting in a collective loss. This is what will happen over the summer months leading to more punitive restrictions in the autumn.

Very well said.

Out of interest - does anyone care what the WHO says? Not entirely sure why people castigate the PM and Westminster but hold up WHO as some sort of oracle? They are headed up by a man who (1) was happy to serve in a government with blatant human rights abuses (Ethiopia); (2) appointed Robert Mugabe as the WHO’s goodwill ambassador (remember Mugabe? The man who oversaw the killing of tens of thousands of Ndebele in Matabeleland and who crippled Zimbabwe’s healthcare system) and (3) a month after meeting Putin appointed a Russian to oversee the fight against TB obviously forgetting what a poor record Russia has in its fight against TB. And let’s not forget the first draft of the WHO guidance leaked recently expressing concern about women of child bearing age drinking alcohol. WHO has seriously lost its way recently so I’m surprised to discover that so many still hold it in such high regard.

Ultimately we have no other choice.

We go now or not at all.

It's easy for the WHO to harp on about these things. It's only Covid for things. They are not really taking other things into account.

Here, people have got to limit of what they can take, especially in areas which have been under severe restrictions for longest.

We have really yet to feel the devastating impact on the kids of so much isolation and missed school.

I'm not one for letting it rip. That's what's happening now anyway. Those who will do so are already doing it.

Those of us that are a bit more mindful of the virus will probably not change our behaviour that much.

There is every chance that there will be further restrictions in the future. But people have got to come to that conclusion themselves before they are mandated by government. Do that and compliance is higher.

There is no buy in from the general public at the moment for additional restrictions and that's the only thing that could bring this under control.

Hopefully what we are doing will ease some pressure in Winter.

The only one I am unsure of is the relaxation on masks - but even then I think so many are so anti mask that we had reached the limits on that too. I suspect though that the majority of us will continue with masks even though it will no longer be mandated, at least until case numbers are lower.

@IloveSooty424

This whole opening-up is driven by right-wing libertarian ideology - limited government and personal freedom. But a pandemic can never be controlled by individuals, it’s through collective actions as a society that we can keep the pandemic under control. So when people are given a free choice to wear face masks and choose not to, they are taking away everyone else’s freedom to be protected as part of the collective. Many members of society, and certainly posters on here, pursue individual gain, rather than behave in the whole group’s best long-term interest, thus resulting in a collective loss. This is what will happen over the summer months leading to more punitive restrictions in the autumn.

This is a genuine question @IloveSooty424, or two questions in fact:

Who gets to decide on what's good for the collective? So for example there's a demonstrable harm created by shutting down education for months, one that has a long term impact. So who decides to choose that harm on behalf of children over other harms of the virus? The same question goes for damage to the economy, loss of livelihood etc.

Is there a limit to what individuals can and should be asked to sacrifice for the collective? So for example a child that's continuously required to isolate at home with abusive parents, result in regular 10-day bouts of torture, is that fine because they're sacrificing for the collective? Does the needs of others to delay infection with one virus outweigh that child's need to stay in education? Or another, simpler example: a person who has spent years building a business that can't survive under restrictions. That person takes out loans, tries to stay afloat and eventually loses everything. The life they built is destroyed. Is that a fair trade for the health of others?

I actually have a third question:
Imagine a policy that until everyone had all the basics they need - good food, decent accommodation, good healthcare, quality education - no one in the country could have any disposable income - all disposable income had to go to the collective good. So everyone can have a certain basic amount to survive and no more. That would save a lot of lives. Would you be in favour?

@PatrickTheFox

Out of interest - does anyone care what the WHO says? Not entirely sure why people castigate the PM and Westminster but hold up WHO as some sort of oracle? They are headed up by a man who (1) was happy to serve in a government with blatant human rights abuses (Ethiopia); (2) appointed Robert Mugabe as the WHO’s goodwill ambassador (remember Mugabe? The man who oversaw the killing of tens of thousands of Ndebele in Matabeleland and who crippled Zimbabwe’s healthcare system) and (3) a month after meeting Putin appointed a Russian to oversee the fight against TB obviously forgetting what a poor record Russia has in its fight against TB. And let’s not forget the first draft of the WHO guidance leaked recently expressing concern about women of child bearing age drinking alcohol. WHO has seriously lost its way recently so I’m surprised to discover that so many still hold it in such high regard.

I have been trying to type this for ages @PatrickTheFox but just couldnt put it into words that made any sense, so thank you for putting it so so well.

I’m not in the UK so not fully up to speed as to where vaccination is at.

Has everyone 18 and over had a chance to be double jabbed? If not, then I think the reopening is too early. Ideally I think everyone 12 and over should have the chance to be vaccinated. I’d be pretty pissed if I was I my 20’s and wasn’t eligible yet before the summer wave started.

Everything that @TheDailyCarbunkle said.

For those who don’t want to open up now, in summer, when do you think is a good time (considering we’ve hammered the economy for 16 months)?

Taking in to account that cases will rise whenever we come out of lockdown (arguably more in winter as people are indoors more, less healthy, more viral illnesses about ).

@bluetongue

I’m not in the UK so not fully up to speed as to where vaccination is at.

Has everyone 18 and over had a chance to be double jabbed? If not, then I think the reopening is too early. Ideally I think everyone 12 and over should have the chance to be vaccinated. I’d be pretty pissed if I was I my 20’s and wasn’t eligible yet before the summer wave started.

Everyone over 18 has been able to be vaccinated for a few weeks. .for whatever reason there are not being as many 1st doses been given as they would like, despite availability and lots of drop in clinics being available etc.

It's the young adults (and school kids) that are mainly driving this wave so I suspect most of them really aren't that bothered about Covid - understandably so!

the thing is - we are at 60 something % single jabbed , 80 something % double jabbed and 90 something % antibodies
The WHO has said countries need 70% double jabbed to open and we are very nearly there, we' re just among one of the first countries in this situation. If our roll out had been slower we wouldn't be in this situation.
We're also not a million miles away from other EU countries too. We're all roughly doing the same thing.
I think the WHO is worried as pics from Wimbledon/ Euro etc are going round the world and making it harder for lower jabbed countries to hold the line with their own populations. I get that argument but don't agree with it.