World Health Organisation criticises UK reopening and says it's 'too early to talk about freedom'

[UndercoverToad]

The WHO has taken a strong stance against England's plans for reopening over the last few days, and a spokesperson has used perhaps some of the strongest words yet.

Dr David Nabarro, the WHO's special envoy on COVID-19, said the "pandemic is advancing ferociously around the world" and "I don't think we've anywhere near got through the worst of it".

Asked about the government's switch to personal responsibility, he told Radio 4's Today programme: "All this doesn't quite fit with the position that was taken by Britain, along with other nations, some months ago when there was a real effort to try to prevent large numbers of people getting the disease, partly because of the risk of death and partly because of the recognition of the risk of long COVID.

"It's necessary to be unequivocal on this particular challenge. What does urging caution mean? It's important that everybody knows the best possible advice on how to prevent themselves being infected.

"I accept that vaccination has changed the nature of the equation in the UK but quite honestly from any point of view it's too early to be talking about massive relaxation or freedom when the outbreak curve is on such a sharp ascent.

"Yes, relax, but don't have these mixed messages about what's going on. This dangerous virus hasn't gone away, it's variants are coming back and are threatening those who have already been vaccinated - we have to take it seriously."

@UndercoverToad

A collective response is the correct response to Covid. The countries that have managed this worldwide are not suffering from huge mental health problems/a very high death toll. *@MarshaBradyo* have we complied?? Sort of. But our response has always been reactive rather than proactive. And the government have focussed on trying to save the economy/individualism - rather than listening to the science.

The British govt response has been broadly similar to that of other govts in Western Europe.

And 'the science' only exists in a lab. Govts can't afford to only 'listen to the science', whatever that is. Of cours the govt also has to think of the economy. I'm astonished that, a year on, some people still think 'the economy' is some abstract notion that only involves banks and commodities traders.

Can people please stop talking about ‘the science’ like it’s one homogenous entity and/or the only consideration when weighing up these complex decisions.

It’s so facile.

I'm astonished that, a year on, some people still think 'the economy' is some abstract notion that only involves banks and commodities traders.

I know, right?

If people really understood the public sector cuts that are on the horizon, they might think a little differently.

@MarshaBradyo - agree, but we implemented those measures too late!! It was all a reactive measure rather the gov LISTENING and responding to the science. Had we lockdowned earlier, closed our borders earlier - we would have stopped the infection rate from spiralling out of control.

@TheKeatingFive

I'm astonished that, a year on, some people still think 'the economy' is some abstract notion that only involves banks and commodities traders.

I know, right?

If people really understood the public sector cuts that are on the horizon, they might think a little differently.

Maybe they think it won't affect them?

Maybe they think it won't affect them?

Probably. Big shocks coming.

[quote UndercoverToad]@MarshaBradyo - agree, but we implemented those measures too late!! It was all a reactive measure rather the gov LISTENING and responding to the science. Had we lockdowned earlier, closed our borders earlier - we would have stopped the infection rate from spiralling out of control.[/quote]
No go back to early Feb 2020 SAGE minutes you’d be surprised.

It was thought that we should avoid the peak coinciding with winter. If you hear commentary on it SAGE found numbers were wrong and we had to get a lockdown together

There wasn’t actually science telling us to lockdown earlier not borders closed in you go to WHO advice early 2020.

I also agree with re that this is more complex than lumping it into the science v the economy.

@IcedPurple because the whole of Western Europe is - an individualistic culture. And our dismay/complaints with strategies imposed - are broadly in line.

But surely - a smart thing is to look worldwide and see how other cultures have succeeded??
Surely - a strategy that encourages EVEN MORE individualism - is not going to work.

@MarshaBradyo but 2021? When we’d maybe got our act together more!!

[quote UndercoverToad]@IcedPurple because the whole of Western Europe is - an individualistic culture. And our dismay/complaints with strategies imposed - are broadly in line.

But surely - a smart thing is to look worldwide and see how other cultures have succeeded??
Surely - a strategy that encourages EVEN MORE individualism - is not going to work.[/quote]
I don't want to rerun the arguments of the past 15 months over yet again, but if countries have 'succeeded' - and that still remains to be seen - it's because of geographic or demographic factors, not 'culture'. People here laud the 'success' of Oz and NZ, for example, but they too are what you would call 'individualist' cultures based on the British model.

You're talking in very broad terms, but not offering any actual solutions. We have vaccines - imperfect, but highly effective. It's summer. "Cases" are high but hospitalisations are low. What do you want to happen? The virus is here and is not going away. It will join the many other viruses we live and occasionally die with. "Culture" isn't going to change any of that.

This is the same WHO who at various points told us there was no pandemic, there was no point shutting borders, that masks were not effective, that we were being risky in having a longer interval between the first and second jabs and that we should share all our vaccines the moment we finished immunising medical staff and the most vulnerable?

They're not my go-to source for information that they use to be, tbh.

At what point do we stop the mass testing that is currently ongoing? Most countries do not ask e.g. school children (as was / is the case here for 11+ up) to do lateral flow tests twice a week even if asymptomatic.

At what point do we recognise that this is likely to become endemic like previous Coronaviruses (cold viruses - e.g. the Russian 1890s flu is widely believed to have been a coronavirus) but when there was much less scientific knowledge and sequencing, which drives anxieties. Never in history have there been lockdowns at the scale we have now.

At what point do we stop testing healthcare staff if they are asymptomatic? A massive issue (I know several doctors in the NHS) is that NHS staff are having to self-isolate and so there is simply not enough staff.

At what point do we stop the public sharing of infection numbers? We don't do this for other diseases and imagine if we tested for all cold viruses and published these daily?

It might seem trite but with most of those vulnerable -and a large percentage of the adult UK population - vaccinated and most cases now in hospitals those unvaccinated, the above questions are valid and need addressing.

We can't go on like this forever, lifting/putting the lid on indefinitely. Can we?

I am generally a 'think positive' person. I also think that a point has come where something needs to change because we cannot continue to allow livelihoods to go down the drain, people to be dying of preventable illnesses other than covid, maternity and antenatal care to continue to be shocking or schooling to be so terribly disrupted.

Right now the biggest threat to the treatment of illnesses other than covid is covid. The more covid cases we have, the less we can treat other illnesses, the worse things like maternity care are affected.

There has to be a moment to open up and this is the moment.

• all vulnerable vaccinated, hell nearly all over 18 vaccinated
• summer holidays. Schools out
• before winter

When the hell else do people think we should open up?

Nobody seems to be able to answer that @Blessex I’ve asked the question on multiple threads.

When would be a better time people?

@Delatron

Nobody seems to be able to answer that *@Blessex* I’ve asked the question on multiple threads.

When would be a better time people?

There'll never be a better time.

• 4 weeks ago, not enough had been vaccinated (true).
• Now, 'cases' are too high.
• A month from now, we'll have to prioritise schools.
• A month after that, we're coming into flu season.

And so on and so forth. This is clearly the best, or maybe we should say, least bad, time to open up. That doesn't mean there aren't risks and downsides involved. I think some people have lost the ability to evaluate risk and see life outside of Covid tunnel vision.

@IcedPurple @Delatron fully agree. It’s now or in 12 months folks.

I am getting very fed up with these “we are all so selfish and individualistic arguments” when I look at how much my children both teenagers at crucial stages in their lives and education have given up for a disease that will not harm them.
And yet people still have the cheek to call them selfish.
Multiplied by millions of other children etc etc etc.
And they have missed it all mostly without complaining- the Very opposite of “selfishness” imo

@IcedPurple - no - I disagree. I think the huge overriding factor is culture.

And when exactly does the discredited WHO want us to open up heh? Honestly they lost all credibility a while back in my book. But people please tell us the answer. When do you want to open up?

[quote UndercoverToad]@IcedPurple - no - I disagree. I think the huge overriding factor is culture.[/quote]
I can't believe I'm going to say it as I hate the expression but... the virus doesn't care about culture.

It's a microscopic virus which is going to do its thing, as viruses have done for millenia, regardless of 'culture'. Which are all these wonderful virus immune cultures whereof you speak?

@sashagabadon

I am getting very fed up with these “we are all so selfish and individualistic arguments” when I look at how much my children both teenagers at crucial stages in their lives and education have given up for a disease that will not harm them. And yet people still have the cheek to call them selfish. Multiplied by millions of other children etc etc etc. And they have missed it all mostly without complaining- the Very opposite of “selfishness” imo

Totally agree Sasha.

I have been very impressed by the stoicism and good humour my sixth form/university age nephews have shown, and they are an age group which has missed out on a LOT.

I don't get what people want us to do then? The majority have had a first jab, and loads more have immunity from being infected. And it's summer. What are we actually waiting for. Because this winter is likely to be bad again, with flu on top of Covid. As others have said its now or never (well, at least next year!)

The only thing I disagree with is relaxing the rules on masks, because that is such an easy thing that might make at least a bit of a difference.

@sashagabadon

I am getting very fed up with these “we are all so selfish and individualistic arguments” when I look at how much my children both teenagers at crucial stages in their lives and education have given up for a disease that will not harm them. And yet people still have the cheek to call them selfish. Multiplied by millions of other children etc etc etc. And they have missed it all mostly without complaining- the Very opposite of “selfishness” imo

Exactly. Young people are losing some of the best years of their lives, for something that doesn't even affect them. And people still call them selfish.

@Delatron

Nobody seems to be able to answer that *@Blessex* I’ve asked the question on multiple threads.

When would be a better time people?

Well, Scotland seems to have found a way.

The better time is 'never' for a cliff-edge, and of course the government is persisting in putting forward this as a false dichotomy.

Incremental lifting over the summer, as is going to happen in other parts of the UK diesnt fit the (self-serving) question that the government is using as a rhetorical device