France pulls out the big guns!

[NotPregnantJustChubs]

I live in France and Macron has just made a speech saying that from the end of July, vaccination or a negative test is going to be compulsory for cultural and entertainment venues. From August, it’ll be compulsory for cafes and restaurants too. This applies to all 12+.

PCR tests will become paid as of September, to encourage vaccination.

I’m already vaccinated, thankfully, and I do think it’s necessary to contain the delta variant. But wowza, I’m waiting to hear the backlash in the morning. Macron is up for reelection next year as well, they must be very desperate to contain this…

08:40notimagain

*HilaryThorpe

I think those of us who live here would have a bit more empathy with visitors to France if the UK wasn't refusing to accept our vaccination certificates at all!

Yep, all one way isn’t it*

This.^^
I have paid £160. for tests in the uk next week.
And I'll have to quarantine for 10 days.
Not because I fancy a holiday but because I need to visit my 90 year old father in my country of birth.
The UK have abandoned Brits in Europe.

@DumplingsAndStew

Are there exceptions for those medically unable to be vaccinated?

As mentioned upthread on this and many other issues around the announcement last night we really don’t know any of the fine detail yet.

As per standard procedure that only becomes visible when legislation gets presented to the legislators..should know in the next day or two.

PCR tests are quite expensive. I can understand charging for them when there is an alternative free option that hasn’t been taken up. Otherwise all tax payers are footing the bill and every country’s public purse will already be feeling the strain of Covid. For those who cant be vaccinated the PCR tests should be free though.

Why shouldn't people pay for tests if they won't get vaccinated? Why should the taxpayer pay for a choice that is actively harmful to society, not just the individual?

Making people pay for PCR tests is counter productive, IMO

Great policy, similar measures will be applied in Greece this week. Hopefully this will convince vaccine hesitants, vaccines are the way out of this pandemic.

What was the take up like before?

Wondering why those who didn’t have it aren’t more annoyed / worried. Or are they?

I’m not sure what take up we’d get if offered to over 12 here but if they had to have it to go into a coffee shop I think people would be vocal. Maybe I’m thinking of SM though

What’s the reaction in France

It's worth noting as well that the government have stated that, depending on how the situation evolves, they will consider mass mandatory vaccination.

This wouldn't be surprising to be honest, as childhood vaccinations are already legally mandatory in France. And, somewhat related, homeschooling is in the process of being removed as a citizen's right (another project of Macron's, incidentally).

JasJas maybe re nightclubs, we seem to have form for a lot of urging ;

Possibly will change but government seems to be living away from legal enforcement not towards it

Why shouldn't people pay for tests if they won't get vaccinated? Why should the taxpayer pay for a choice that is actively harmful to society, not just the individual?

Smokers harm others through passive smoking. Drug takers harms society, needles left lying around, increase in child neglect etc. That all costs money to sort out but it’s ‘free’. Every person that needs treatment for something that ‘apparently only harms them’ (which isn’t true) also adds to waiting lists for others. So I don’t go with your argument. Many individuals choices harm others, you just have to look a little deeper.

I’m sure if people are genuinely unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons it would be very simple to exempt them from payment- it information would just need to be loaded onto your carte vital. I doubt would hope that would be available for tourists though.

If I want my kids in France to go on summer camp or childcare I need to prove they are vaccinated. It’s not a new concept.

There is definitely be hassle introducing it and I’m sure lots will try to avoid it but I guess heavy fines will help that along…

They could make the tests free to those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. An exemption, if you like.

Those who simply do not wish to have a vaccination could put their hands in their own pockets and pay for each test.

@MarshaBradyo I'm curious to know the general reaction, too. I've been searching online but it's not clear yet... The leader of the nationalist party has condemned it as an erosion of human rights, and various people in political positions have either approved or condemned.

I imagine the more general reaction will be discussed in the evenings news today, but frankly I don't expect any mainstream news outlet to be balanced in what views are given the most representation. But maybe I'll be proved wrong.

I wonder if this will prompt a big return of the gilets jaunes...

I think it’s quite good that he’s putting what’s best for society ahead of his own political aspirations. Pity Boris doesn’t do the same!

Smokers pay additional tax on cigarettes and cannot smoke in public places indoors, soon that will be extended to public places indoors.
There are a tiny number of heroin users in the UK the vast majority are not taking drugs in public places (i have worked with them) so this is a very tiny harm.
Your arguments are apples and oranges compared to Covid vaccination and paid for pcr tests.

@Toty

The risks from covid are far greater than the risks from the vaccines.

Not for the young and healthy. Why do you think they stopped using AZ in under 40's? It's not because they're at higher risk of clots (that would be women in their 40's). It's because they were deemed to be at lower risk from covid than the vaccine. That is literally why it is not being used in the young.

And now the vaccines they are using have been linked to heart inflammation in Rare cases.

I’m double vaccinated but if I was young and healthy I would be very much more reluctant

@XenoBitch

I would rather it was free tests for everyone, vaccinated or not. Unvaccinated are not rabid Covid carriers, and the vaccinated are not 100% free from Covid. Having to pay for tests as a way to encourage vaccine take up wont suddenly make the anxieties of hesitant people disappear. Address the reasons for hesitancy.

Totally agree

I guess he has to do something with such a low rate of vaccine take up.
It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.

People will be angry - particularly those who are not anti but couldn’t be bothered getting vaccinated and now see their holiday passing in testing queues….

Certainly in my area there has been a huge availability for vaccines and people I have spoken to who haven’t been done have mainly said there is no need as numbers are currently so low and they aren’t going abroad.

I don’t think it’s a vote winner but it’s the right thing to do.

@Onesunnydayiniceland

Great policy, similar measures will be applied in Greece this week. Hopefully this will convince vaccine hesitants, vaccines are the way out of this pandemic.

Yeah, nothing like coercion to get the masses to comply

He is also pretty stupid...any long term side effects, any deaths, the blood will be on his hands forcing people to do this. Wouldn't you say all the excess Covid deaths caused by Johnson and his government's incompetence fall into the same category?
Currently for foreign visitors the cost is 29€ for antigen and 49€ for PCR. A lot of people wouldn’t be able to afford those prices especially multiple times. It will just force the poorest out of society. Do you have any idea how much it costs visitors to Britain in pre-booked Covid tests - even for those who have been double vaccinated?
I live in France and I think Macron's approach is the right one - and when you look at the rush to book vaccines after his broadcast it already seems to be having some effect. We've done the bit where everyone stays locked up and restricted to protect the vulnerable for months and months, now its time get those who can be vaccinated vaccinated and open up. This has to be better than the UK approach where having got ahead in the vaccination stakes they have now decided to say "Sod it - let's just open up anyway". There is a cultural difference in play here - I didn't see anyone being excused from mask wearing here in France for any reason - if you didn't want to wear a mask to somewhere that required one when you didn't go in (or get get on the bus or whatever). You can still choose not be vaccinated, but you'll have to pay to get a negative test (or not go to the cinema, get on the train etc)

I am double vaxxed, and very pro vaccine, but I disagree with this approach, this seems like he's using bullying tactics to get what he wants. I did my research and made the call based on what was best for me, my body and my circumstances, and that choice should be free to be made by everyone for themselves - I don't like that he is coercing people into making a decision regarding their own health and body that they wouldn't have normally made

In Germany it's been that way for ages. At the moment you don't need a test or double vaccinated for outdoor events or to sit outside at a cafe and restaurant but you do need either a negative test or double vaccination to eat/drink inside or go to indoor events.

It's not really a problem here because there are so many test centres everywhere (literally every street has one) and lots of people are vaccinated. However the tests here are free - the government are paying the full cost of every test.

@LillianGish

He is also pretty stupid...any long term side effects, any deaths, the blood will be on his hands forcing people to do this. Wouldn't you say all the excess Covid deaths caused by Johnson and his government's incompetence fall into the same category? Currently for foreign visitors the cost is 29€ for antigen and 49€ for PCR. A lot of people wouldn’t be able to afford those prices especially multiple times. It will just force the poorest out of society. Do you have any idea how much it costs visitors to Britain in pre-booked Covid tests - even for those who have been double vaccinated? I live in France and I think Macron's approach is the right one - and when you look at the rush to book vaccines after his broadcast it already seems to be having some effect. We've done the bit where everyone stays locked up and restricted to protect the vulnerable for months and months, now its time get those who can be vaccinated vaccinated and open up. This has to be better than the UK approach where having got ahead in the vaccination stakes they have now decided to say "Sod it - let's just open up anyway". There is a cultural difference in play here - I didn't see anyone being excused from mask wearing here in France for any reason - if you didn't want to wear a mask to somewhere that required one when you didn't go in (or get get on the bus or whatever). You can still choose not be vaccinated, but you'll have to pay to get a negative test (or not go to the cinema, get on the train etc)

Has it been said how long the negative tests gives you entry?

Is it each time you want to go in somewhere

Is that the same for teens visiting on holiday?

And now the vaccines they are using have been linked to heart inflammation in Rare cases.

The cdc have said that the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine is less than the risk of getting myocarditis from covid in similar age groups. If we’re going to get to herd immunity by infecting all the children and teens rather than vaccinating them we’re going to have a lot more teens getting myocarditis.